Dcash4 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 7 hours ago, 43M said: Just pointing out that he didn't claim Chuks "HAS struggled mightily", but rather "WOULD struggle mightily IF moved to LT". Whoops. My bad, Arm. Missed the “‘d”. But I still don’t understand how you would project that he would struggle on the left. He was a LT. They had him as a LT until he was needed to play RT. While Dan Moore might check more athletic boxes in the shorts, their in life play at tackle has been the opposite. Chuks handles finesse better and we have seen Moore literally need to leave his feet at times to keep up with rushers on the edge. Moore’s athleticism really shows when he is on the move rather than moving backwards, which a big part of why I think a lot of us think he should give guard a try. I think he could excel. long story short, I don’t get it. We have seen Chuks play to athleticism in real life and he was a LT. What makes you think he struggles mightily? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsteeld Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 36 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: Whoops. My bad, Arm. Missed the “‘d”. But I still don’t understand how you would project that he would struggle on the left. He was a LT. They had him as a LT until he was needed to play RT. While Dan Moore might check more athletic boxes in the shorts, their in life play at tackle has been the opposite. Chuks handles finesse better and we have seen Moore literally need to leave his feet at times to keep up with rushers on the edge. Moore’s athleticism really shows when he is on the move rather than moving backwards, which a big part of why I think a lot of us think he should give guard a try. I think he could excel. long story short, I don’t get it. We have seen Chuks play to athleticism in real life and he was a LT. What makes you think he struggles mightily? Stiffness. Gets lazy at times when engaged. Plays too high at times. Slow feet but he balances it out due to being really strong. Despite his strength, he's not the best run blocker due to being too passive. It's on film during the games. Wish they had cut ups like college so it can be shown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armsteeld Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Alex Kozora is one of the more knowledgeable person I've known when it comes to Steelers related information. Of course I don't always agree with him but this guy does his homework and knows his shet. Reason 101 on why I think the Steelers OL isn't all doom and gloom like many feel. Yes they can be better but the future is bright. Sacks given up by Steelers: Kenny Pickett 9 Dan Moore 5.5 Kevin Dotson 4.5 Mitch Trubisky 4 Chukwuma Okorafor 4 Mason Cole 1.5 James Daniel .5 https://steelersdepot.com/2023/02/2022-pittsburgh-steelers-sack-breakdown-final-results/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rivers Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 continuity helped the OL as the season went on. If they take after where they left off say from the midway point, we can expect the sack total to be lower, not sure how much though. I would be ok with Moore getting another year at LT(I pull for Moore and liked how he played mostly), but dotson was lacking at LG too often for some reason. Then of course they need depth in case of injuries or at least I think they do. Maybe Scott is good , but mostly unproven at this stage. Proven quality reserves might be the way to put it. Chuks has bee a good RT, just leave him there. Moore might get better as well, he did improve as the season went on and he finishes run blocks. If they draft Mauch and have him at LT with Moore at LG, that should be a good place for the RB's to get some good yards I still expect then to either land a UFA LT or draft #32 or maybe even #17 for OL unless some player falls that they really wanted. Drafts get unpredictable so wait and see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, armsteeld said: Stiffness. Gets lazy at times when engaged. Plays too high at times. Slow feet but he balances it out due to being really strong. Despite his strength, he's not the best run blocker due to being too passive. It's on film during the games. Wish they had cut ups like college so it can be shown. That reads as a college scouting projection where your not sure how he would translate to the field, but your taking a guess. He has been an actual NFL starter for 3 years and been fine despite the things you mention. Those things can hold him back from being good/great, but it hasn’t held him back from playing well. Side matters less now as the NFL game has top end rushers going on both sides, so it’s not about a talent gap. I’m just not sure how switching back to the position he originally played would change him from an average starter to someone who “struggles mightily”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August4th Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 They just hired Aaron curry to be a OLB coach. Had success coaching that group in Seattle last yr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 I assume Larry O will be looking to get paid more than we’re willing to spend but I would love to have him back on a 2-3 year deal at the right price. He was really steady for us last year and I’m not sure Leal is ready for that full time role yet. Especially with Cam on the other side who will be one year older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 6 hours ago, bigben07MVP said: I assume Larry O will be looking to get paid more than we’re willing to spend but I would love to have him back on a 2-3 year deal at the right price. He was really steady for us last year and I’m not sure Leal is ready for that full time role yet. Especially with Cam on the other side who will be one year older. I have a feeling they are going to prioritize other players over him. Doesnt mean we cant or wont bring him back, but I feel like guys like Cam Sutton and MAYBE even Terrell Edmunds over him. Again, I feel like we can keep him, but if he feels he can get a better deal elsewhere, he will be gone. He will be 29 this year, and this might be his last chance at a pretty big payday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigben07MVP Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 hours ago, 43M said: I have a feeling they are going to prioritize other players over him. Doesnt mean we cant or wont bring him back, but I feel like guys like Cam Sutton and MAYBE even Terrell Edmunds over him. Again, I feel like we can keep him, but if he feels he can get a better deal elsewhere, he will be gone. He will be 29 this year, and this might be his last chance at a pretty big payday. His contract with the Bears before he failed his physical was 13/year. I’m sure he’ll be looking to land close to that number. If that’s the case I’m sure he’s gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 The Steelers better bring back Sutton or a comparable vet…going into the draft with a massive hole across from Wallace who is in a contract year himself would be terrible. Comparable CBs are getting ~$13~ mill AAV…better get it done. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, AFF said: The Steelers better bring back Sutton or a comparable vet…going into the draft with a massive hole across from Wallace who is in a contract year himself would be terrible. Comparable CBs are getting ~$13~ mill AAV…better get it done. Agreed. Somone here (can't remember whio/where), within the last week or so, mentioned that Sutton was equivalent to a #3 CB on most teams...what?? He was like T-6 in PDs, tied for 28th, I think, in INTs, so on and so forth. Hate to say it, but Cam Sutton was, at an absolute minimum, a top 20 CB in the NFL, not a top 65-95 CB (2 x 32 teams = 64th, so if he was a #3...well, the best he could be was a top 65 CB...sorry...no...). He may not be 6'2", 210 lbs, with sub 4.45 speed, but that doesn't make him incapbale of being a starting CB. At worst, he's a #2, but then so is Levi, who, like him or not, well outperformed his $4M AAV contract. Sure, we can upgrade, but we need to keep both of them. and if we don't upgrade the starters, then getting an equivalent, or even a decent nickel, and we'll be 'ok' ILB and DL, are the only position that I see where we MUST upgrade. We can and should upgrade in other positions, and improve depth, but if we went into next season with the same starting group (copied from ourlads), can you honestly look at these 22 starters, and pick more than our 2 ILBs, and maybe Adams that we must upgrade, or we will surely fail? I even feel better about promoting Leal to take over for Ogunjobi, than I do about starting these same ILBs LWR 18 Johnson, Diontae 19/3 RWR 14 Pickens, George 22/2 SWR 82 Sims, Steven SF21 LT 65 Moore Jr., Dan 21/4 LG 69 Dotson, Kevin 20/4 C 61 Cole, Mason U/Min RG 78 Daniels, James U/Chi RT 76 Okorafor, Chukwuma 18/3 TE 88 Freiermuth, Pat 21/2 QB 8 Pickett, Kenny 22/1 RB 22 Harris, Najee 21/1 DE 99 Ogunjobi, Larry U/Cin NT 57 Adams, Montravius P/NO DE 97 HEYWARD, CAMERON 11/1 LOLB 90 Watt, T.J. 17/1 LILB 41 Spillane, Robert SF19 RILB 51 Jack, Myles CC/Jax ROLB 56 Highsmith, Alex 20/3 CB 29 Wallace, Levi U/Buf SS 34 Edmunds, Terrell 18/1 FS 39 Fitzpatrick, Minkah T/Mia CB 25 Sutton, Cameron 17/3 So, first orders of business would be: #1 - Replace, or keep, Sutton and Edmunds #2 - Upgrade 2 of 3 ILBs - Jack, Spillane, Bush #3 - Fill in depth everywhere else Now, of course, this is my opinion, and I'm sure there are those who feel that upgrading one or two others are just as critical, but point is those #1 and #2 priorities must be met, because if not, it won't really matter what minor moves we make to other positons, we will be sunk before we even get started... Edited February 20, 2023 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Sutton is a hard one for me. I would love to have him back, but I also don't think he is worth the money he gets vs replacement. If it takes $13M to get Sutton, I would rather just spent $16M and get Dean. There are also some interesting young rebound types. Byron Murphy, Rock Ya-Sin, Greedy Williams, Sean Murphy-Bunting. I haven't really looked up contract stuff for them yet, but could I net two of them like we did last year for the money it would take to get Sutton? Either way, our best move is to net a FA starter and draft a long term guy with high-upside. But I am not sure which way I want them to go with it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, Ward4HOF said: Somone here (can't remember whio/where), within the last week or so, mentioned that Sutton was equivalent to a #3 CB on most teams...what?? He was like T-6 in PDs, tied for 28th, I think, in INTs, so on and so forth. Hate to say it, but Cam Sutton was, at an absolute minimum, a top 20 CB in the NFL, not a top 65-95 CB (2 x 32 teams = 64th, so if he was a #3...well, the best he could be was a top 65 CB...sorry...no...). He may not be 6'2", 210 lbs, with sub 4.45 speed, but that doesn't make him incapbale of being a starting CB. Personally I think Cam is a fair #2 on a good deep playoff run defense. #3 if you want an elite defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward4HOF Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, warfelg said: Personally I think Cam is a fair #2 on a good deep playoff run defense. #3 if you want an elite defense. So, how does a 'fair #2' CB rank 13th of all CBs in Opposing Passer Rating when targeted, or 7th in completion percentage for opposing passers, or T-12th in CBs in INTs, or T-6th in PDs. Granted, it's the first year he's put up stats quite this good, but it happened to be the year that Watt was out for half the season, and no decent ILB play, so it's not like his life was made easier this season, due to better-than-average front 7 play. We've had pretty rotten luck in evaluating, and grooming CBs, and we haven't gotten this type of production out of our CBs since I can't remember when...and that includes Wallace, Pierre, and even Witherspoon. I for one, would be thrilled if the Steeler's could match this years DB coverage play next year, because, again, honestly, when was the last season that we've had CB play that was as good as the 2022 season? I honestly do not remember. Edited February 20, 2023 by Ward4HOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Ran a little fun Monday Mock. It’s got some things some will hate and some will like. Traded 17 to Tampa for 19, 82, 175 19 - Jaxon Smith-Njigba WR OSU. I think he can do some really good things in the slot here. But even if you see him as just a slot he would be one of the best in the NFL. I think he can go outside as well. 32 - Luka Van Ness DL Iowa. He’s going to be a workout warrior but at that, he’s a NFL 5T. Can’t bend the edge but converts power well. He’s going to be a nice long term groom at DL. 49 - Matthew Bergeron OL Syracuse. He’s a run mauler on the OL and surprisingly nimble pass protector. I think he has LT potential with Pro Bowl LG abilities. 80 - Christopher Smith S Georgia. I was watching Ringo and this kid jumped to me. I think he could be a good S3 fit for us with SS potential. 82 - Derick Hall Edge Auburn. Guy is solid. Offers a lot for E3 potential. 120 - Kyu Blu Kelly CB Stanford. Guy has it as a Steelers corner. Tough physical sob who can cover really well. 175 Luke Schoonmaker TE Michigan. 236 Caleb Murphy C Indiana 243 Nic Jones CB Ball State 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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