2022 GDT Da Steelers 1-4 host Da Bucs 3-2

[Dcash4]

51 minutes ago, bigben07MVP said:

I actually don’t think it’s a horrible strategy now that we have a QB who converts 3rd downs. Would be more effective if we had any semblance of a run game too.

It's not the idea I don't like about third and manageable, but it's actively working to get there that bothers me. I believe that is what Alex is trying to highlight too. Call a 4 yard play, you only get a 4 yard play. These are usually one route options and as he highlights - usually in limited to no YAC possibilities. Most teams want 3rd and manageable, but there's other ways to achieve that while trying to actively get a 1st down on 1st or 2nd down. We avoid that like the plague and invite 3rd down as often as possible. 

Some of our best scoring drives this year avoided 3rd down entirely. I think we have 6 TDs drives and across those we hit 5 3rd downs, twice in the same drives and twice were in the deep redzone that were the scoring play. 

There's a difference between having plays that have 3rd and manageable as out a possible outcome and plays that actively want to get you there. If there was a 10/15 yard route paired with these or these calls lead to YAC opportunity, great....but they don't.

It's getting 4 yards for the sake of moving onto the next down to hope you get 4 yards to get to the next down to hope you get 4 yards. That means you have to play perfectly all the time to succeed. We don't have that ability. We need more chunks that have "live to play another day" 3rd and manageable outlets. 

[warfelg]

18 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

It's not the idea I don't like about third and manageable, but it's actively working to get there that bothers me. I believe that is what Alex is trying to highlight too. Call a 4 yard play, you only get a 4 yard play. These are usually one route options and as he highlights - usually in limited to no YAC possibilities. Most teams want 3rd and manageable, but there's other ways to achieve that while trying to actively get a 1st down on 1st or 2nd down. We avoid that like the plague and invite 3rd down as often as possible. 

Some of our best scoring drives this year avoided 3rd down entirely. I think we have 6 TDs drives and across those we hit 5 3rd downs, twice in the same drives and twice were in the deep redzone that were the scoring play. 

There's a difference between having plays that have 3rd and manageable as out a possible outcome and plays that actively want to get you there. If there was a 10/15 yard route paired with these or these calls lead to YAC opportunity, great....but they don't.

It's getting 4 yards for the sake of moving onto the next down to hope you get 4 yards to get to the next down to hope you get 4 yards. That means you have to play perfectly all the time to succeed. We don't have that ability. We need more chunks that have "live to play another day" 3rd and manageable outlets. 

I really think Tomlin wants that. He wants a ball control offense (talks about it a lot) that can do the 10-15 play drives for 70-80 yards that take 8-10 minutes. If you can do that it can push the other team into a sense of urgency. They start calling the dumb plays that are apt to have mistakes and get the defense to be opportunistic. 
 

Issue there is we don’t have to offense to do it from a talent standpoint and don’t have a defense that can continually go back on the field when the offense can’t do that. 
 

But even with that offense you need the quick strike ability in order to keep the defense on their toes and we don’t do that either. We don’t have that 2 1st down and 40/50 yard shot at the end zone play ability. 

[Steeler Hitman]

2 hours ago, jebrick said:

Ben had everything you want.  Accuracy, arm strength and attitude.  KP is lacking in arm strength.  He has an NFL average arm but Ben had a NFL+ arm.  We can hope that KP is comparable to Russel Wilson.  Another QB that has  average arm strength.

I don't think as a rookie  Ben had the attitude that Kenny does. Ben was cocky and a bit arrogant as a young player. He had success. He looked like a future all world QB. He went through some things, got humbled a bit and became a much more likeable teammate and person.

[MOSteelers56]

4 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

went through some things

A windshield?

[jebrick]

20 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I don't think as a rookie  Ben had the attitude that Kenny does. Ben was cocky and a bit arrogant as a young player. He had success. He looked like a future all world QB. He went through some things, got humbled a bit and became a much more likeable teammate and person.

The attitude I am talking about is to have no fear to put it on his shoulders.  The NFL was not too big for Ben and it is not too big for KP.

[Steeler Hitman]

4 hours ago, jebrick said:

The attitude I am talking about is to have no fear to put it on his shoulders.  The NFL was not too big for Ben and it is not too big for KP.

I agree with you completely here. Yeah Ben had a lot of Moxy.  He was a competitor when he went on the field. No doubt!

I forgot about Russell Wilson. That is another good really comparison.

4 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

A windshield?

Yeah, allegations, distractions, and the court cases! 😒

Edited October 13, 2022 by Steeler Hitman

[43M]

On a separate note...Im starting to believe Pressley Harvin isnt going to make it all season.   In fact, I think a bad game this week could be the end.

This team has never had a consistently decent punter.    Sad as it is, Jordan Berry might be the best punter we have had in the last 30 years.   

[JustPlainNasty]

Didn't realize Larry Foote was coaching with / the Co-Defensive Coordinator for the Bucs..

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Didn't realize Larry Foote was coaching with / the Co-Defensive Coordinator for the Bucs..

Has been for like 4/5 years now. Started with Arians right as he retired. Both him and Leftwitch credit Tomlin for their turn to coaching. 

[warfelg]

 

[MOSteelers56]

7 minutes ago, warfelg said:

 

I read that this morning. Pretty interesting. I don't really ever think about the nuances that go into the game. If Chase is committed to learning and honing his craft, I'd be interested in bringing him back. I have my doubts he is the type of player that will do that, though. Austin needs to find his way into the offense soon. We need a slot option. 

[warfelg]

That statement on simplifying things. Yikes. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I read that this morning. Pretty interesting. I don't really ever think about the nuances that go into the game. If Chase is committed to learning and honing his craft, I'd be interested in bringing him back. I have my doubts he is the type of player that will do that, though. Austin needs to find his way into the offense soon. We need a slot option. 

I think what’s challenging is you look at his career:

1st 10 games, good. Things were simple. Post, runs on sweeps, and shallow crossers. 
 

11-16: injuries. Forced to play on the outside. New route tree. 
 

17-Jujus injury: Inside with the simple again. 
 

Through the end of last season: On the outside. 
 

2022: back to the inside now asked to do all the slot things. 
 

As an organization that long has discussed asking something to do all the things we sure don’t do it a lot. But then when we don’t we constantly move someone around. Chase should have stayed in the slot both seasons when injuries hit. If your goal when you drafted him was to have him be a big se WR/TE matchup issue then you’ve failed him by not letting him hone his craft. 

[Dcash4]

12 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

I don't really ever think about the nuances that go into the game

I don't think Chase ever did either. 

The small things were my biggest disappointment from his rookie season to last year.  He just didn't grow into things you need to really be good at receiver in the NFL. Subtle, small differences make a huge difference. 

I liked to watch the difference between DJ and Claypool going vertical. Claypool is by far the bigger threat, DJ is by far the better technician. He understands how to stay away from the rail to give more space (ie: win outside, but squeeze back into the field on your stem) and he has a great feel for speed change and putting a guy from his hip to his back to block and create space late. Claypool loves the rail and just plays bigger and faster than people....that just doesn't win consistently in the pros, but I am sure it worked his entire life. 

Maybe it just will take patience, but the lack of growth from year 1 to year 2 outside doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about it happening. I do think he will start to get some bigger chunk plays as Kenny gets more experience and see him in some of those openings shown. But overall, I think this shows Claypool can be productive, but isn't a very good receiver.

[MOSteelers56]

12 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

I don't think Chase ever did either. 

The small things were my biggest disappointment from his rookie season to last year.  He just didn't grow into things you need to really be good at receiver in the NFL. Subtle, small differences make a huge difference. 

I liked to watch the difference between DJ and Claypool going vertical. Claypool is by far the bigger threat, DJ is by far the better technician. He understands how to stay away from the rail to give more space (ie: win outside, but squeeze back into the field on your stem) and he has a great feel for speed change and putting a guy from his hip to his back to block and create space late. Claypool loves the rail and just plays bigger and faster than people....that just doesn't win consistently in the pros, but I am sure it worked his entire life. 

Maybe it just will take patience, but the lack of growth from year 1 to year 2 outside doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy about it happening. I do think he will start to get some bigger chunk plays as Kenny gets more experience and see him in some of those openings shown. But overall, I think this shows Claypool can be productive, but isn't a very good receiver.

I remember Kozora was asked during TC of Chase's 2nd year if he'd improved any over the offseason. He said that he looked like the exact same guy. That was kind of eye opening to me at the time. I really don't think he's gotten markedly better at any one thing in his time in the league. He has all the tools to be an All-Pro, but will probably never put them together.