Time to Fire LaFleur, Gute, and Murphy And Burn The House Down

[vegas492]

19 hours ago, chefj85 said:

Your whole post is reaching. 
 

so basically, the scramble drill. Thats it? 

Nope.

Man beaters as #1.  You know, the routes that were new then and still being used today.  Kind of like the west coast offense that has evolved since Walsh.  Just because the same exact offense isn't run doesn't mean it wasn't innovative at the time.

Scramble drill I'd put as #2.  Very innovative.  So much so that it is used with most every team now.

I'd probably put tied for #2 is the WR stand up pass with blockers in front of it.  From a variety of different formations.  Most teams do this now, and Mac was the first to install this concept.  So much so that the NFL had to either change their rules for how to call the play correctly, or modify their rules in order to call the play correctly.  That is a pretty big one.

Then you get the reaches,  no doubt.  I'd put the shotgun offense with run game as the first one, because that was pretty innovative stuff at the time.  Especially the run game part.

Then we have the Finley Flex and the U71 stuff.  And I'd say U71 is the biggest reach as going "jumbo" at TE was being done prior to Mac.  He just did it better.

And to say "that's it"?  Uh.  That's a lot.  When you consider Mac's base offense was still being run by a bunch of coaches, and I think the main one was Payton with Brees, that is a lot of stuff.

And we haven't even talked about his QB school that re-trained Rodgers.  Or how he won games with guys named Flynn and Tolzien.  And this year with a guy named Rush.

If you want to bag on him for his time out usage or in game management, I'm there with you.  If you want to talk about his ego and losing the team (towards the end), I'm there with you.  But we have a clear difference of opinion when talking about his worth as an offensive head coach.  And that is fine.

[vegas492]

14 hours ago, chefj85 said:

 

omg you're so full of ****. People  talk about Coryell, Holmgren, Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, Andy Reid and Mike Shannahan as being offensive innovators. I have literally not once, not ever heard even one person call MM that. This is all in your head and it's bull****. He didn't invent this formation. Just stop I'm done with this conversation. I can only handle so much stupid, and quite frankly I'm past my limit. 

I've never head of Holmgren as an innovator.  I've heard him as a disciple of Walsh, but not an innovator.

But, if you are calling Holmgren an innovator, I dare say, that Mac is more than an innovator.

Even Favre said the first play of his Super Bowl victory was a staple of the 49ers offense and the 9ers hit a long on one that very play against that very defense.  Staple Walsh west cost offensive play.

Edited November 23, 2022 by vegas492

[vegas492]

6 hours ago, persiandud said:

putting Mike McCarthy's name in the same conversation as those offensive gurus is....something. 

if we're being real, i think people in this chat overrate McCarthy because they already have that confirmation bias about Rodgers. it's a convenient segue. "see, Rodgers is trash now, we should have traded him!"

which is fine...but then sometimes it comes with

"we should have kept McCarthy over Rodgers"

nah lol

I think you are missing my point.

Early Mac was very much an innovator on offense.  He took an old regressing Favre and turned him into something very good.

Made Rodgers into something even better.  Innovated his offense along the way.  Into a passing game that most of the league uses now.

The fact that he failed as a HC his last few years here should not take away what he did years before.  

It is kind of like saying the light bulb was a poor invention because the LED bulbs now last longer.

[Norm]

55 minutes ago, chefj85 said:

So youre saying that MM was the first to vary formations? 
 

quit being a coward and put your name on something. 

You're not able to even comprehend what he is saying, that's what is embarrassing. Then you're telling them how little they know. It's a riot. 

[Norm]

37 minutes ago, squire12 said:

....... something about Love being traded in 27 hours or someone would be very wrong

 

 

Rekt

[vegas492]

13 minutes ago, Norm said:

Rekt

 

Sometime in the next 27 or so hours...

..makes all the sense in the world. Otherwise I was very, VERY, VERY WRONG

That's the post.  And he's wrong.  Just like on the Matt Campbell head coach thing.

Oh well.  We are all wrong plenty of times.

[chefj85]

23 minutes ago, Norm said:

You're not able to even comprehend what he is saying, that's what is embarrassing. Then you're telling them how little they know. It's a riot. 

Theres no substance behind anything hes saying.

 

scramble drill is the only specific thing hes got.

man beaters? Really? MM invented drag patterns and doible moves? He didnt. So stop ******* saying it.

 

precisely which formations did MM bring to the nfl? He didnt. Just about anything he used was a variation of something he got from Schottenheimer.

 

the fact here is that MM was not an innovator and both of you are just making **** up. You made claims, i asked for specifics which you are inable to provide. So stfu. Both of you.

[chefj85]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I think you are missing my point.

Early Mac was very much an innovator on offense.  He took an old regressing Favre and turned him into something very good.

Made Rodgers into something even better.  Innovated his offense along the way.  Into a passing game that most of the league uses now.

The fact that he failed as a HC his last few years here should not take away what he did years before.  

It is kind of like saying the light bulb was a poor invention because the LED bulbs now last longer.

He developed Rodgers based on qb’ing fundamentals. It helped ground rodgers. It was not some huge revolution in the development of an offense.

I think theres a big disconnect in the argument youre trying to make… Ill day that MM had his moments of being creative. But creativity is not the same as innovation. I also dont think MM was bad. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by chefj85

[CWood21]

21 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

That's the post.  And he's wrong.  Just like on the Matt Campbell head coach thing.

Oh well.  We are all wrong plenty of times.

I mean, I'd like to give him credit about the Packers liking Matt Campbell a LOT, but he was the top candidate for most HC positions.

[mikebpackfan]

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Guys, can we not disagree without attacking the person?  I really like the back and forth, but like that doesn't make anyone stupid because they disagree.  And I don't care who did it first or who did it worse.  Talk football, man.

This is why @ThatJerkDaveis a poo-poo head. 

[mikebpackfan]

You guys let me know when you figure out if McCarthy is a good coach or not. 

[hitnhope]

6 minutes ago, mikebpackfan said:

You guys let me know when you figure out if McCarthy is a good coach or not. 

McCarthy was an excellent "non-game time" coach.  he was an in-game meathead.   After years of being in the position he kind of lost the team at the end.  I believe loyalty to a failing defensive staff really hurt him.

It was time for him to go, but you can't forget that he did an excellent job in his early years.

Unfortunately MLF didn't learn from McCarthy's mistakes on the defensive side of the football.

 

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I'd like to give him credit about the Packers liking Matt Campbell a LOT, but he was the top candidate for most HC positions.

Yes he was.  And I can give @Mr Anonymous credit for bringing the name to my attention.  I didn't know anything about the guy.

Like I said, many of us are wrong plenty.  No big deal.

I'm still mad that my "source" in GB's front office left a while ago.  I get no good stories anymore.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, chefj85 said:

Theres no substance behind anything hes saying.

 

scramble drill is the only specific thing hes got.

man beaters? Really? MM invented drag patterns and doible moves? He didnt. So stop ******* saying it.

 

precisely which formations did MM bring to the nfl? He didnt. Just about anything he used was a variation of something he got from Schottenheimer.

 

the fact here is that MM was not an innovator and both of you are just making **** up. You made claims, i asked for specifics which you are inable to provide. So stfu. Both of you.

@Packerraymond

Yah, it's time.  I don't care if he posts his opinions.  But the childish stfu and other stuff needs to stop.  

[chefj85]

25 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

@Packerraymond

Yah, it's time.  I don't care if he posts his opinions.  But the childish stfu and other stuff needs to stop.  

But your calling people a retard is ok? Do the standards apply to everyone or just me.