Week 7 GDT: Raiders vs Saints

[ronjon1990]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

See here's the thing it's not a stupid idea if you're trying to make the playoffs and beyond

It's only a stupid idea when you're trying to rebuild.

That's why I keep saying it's either the coach screwed up or the GM screwed up. 

Given that we just made the playoffs last year and arguably got better on the roster in some areas and at least stayed the same.in others.....

It's the coach screwing up. 

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Given that we just made the playoffs last year and arguably got better on the roster in some areas and at least stayed the same.in others.....

It's the coach screwing up. 

Right its pretty clear thats the case. I'm just saying it that way now so that someone can't default to the "well the roster was never good and he inherited a sorry team" argument. 

That said, it is interesting that as it currently stands Quinton Jefferson and Yannick Ngakoue have a combined 6.5 sacks while we have 9 sacks as a team. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Jeremy408

[NCOUGHMAN]

34 minutes ago, Geezy said:

Got shut out by Dennis Allen 

Lolol

[Geezy]

12 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Given that we just made the playoffs last year and arguably got better on the roster in some areas and at least stayed the same.in others.....

It's the coach screwing up. 

The fact they watched tape on last years team and decided to roll with the same guys and just add two rookies and back ups was the first red flag. We always talk about the forum being better at drafting than past FOs, but anyone that watched last years team knew we needed to address the OL, and they completely ignored it. 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

Right its pretty clear thats the case. I'm just saying it that way now so that someone can't default to the "well the roster was never good and he inherited a sorry team" argument. 

That said, it is interesting that as it currently stands Quinton Jefferson and Yannick Ngakoue have a combined 6.5 sacks while we have 9 sacks as a team. 

Yep. 

It's wild. 

Personnel-wise:

We improved on Leatherwood from last year, though that's a ground level bar. But the OL is still a mess, and looking worse. 

We have much better WRs overall. 

At TE Moreau isn't really causing us to skip a beat from what Waller gave last year. 

At RB, Jacobs looks far better. 

Carr looks ok when blocking is decent and the receivers are open. 

So we arguably got better overall on offense, albeit with some holes still. They're playing worse though. That's coaching/scheme. 

On D, the DL isn't that much worse than last year, though Jones was a downgrade from Yannick. 

Ya-Sin, Averette, and Hobbs aren't trash and all have been successful in other schemes. They're better than the Arnette's and Mullen's of the world. 

Deablo looked ok last year, both Perryman and Martinez aren't trash and have both been very successful in recent years. 

Harmon isn't great and Moehrig is still getting broken in, but we don't have Dallin Leavitt and Johnathan Abram constantly f'ing up. 

Overall, the defensive roster is at least as good if not slightly better than last year. 

 

So why do we suck? Coaching and the coach's scheme. Being a .500 team with a slight drop off would've been reasonable given turnover, new playbooks, and that we weren't a fully finished product. But this team looks like one that could very much land a top 5 pick in the draft. That isn't and cannot be acceptable, and that's squarely on this fundamentally broken coaching staff. 

Someone wants to say they inherited trash? Ok. I'll entertain that. They inherited trash and turned it into raw sewage then. Six to one half dozen, the coaching sucks regardless of the excuses. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

33 minutes ago, Geezy said:

They decided it was more important to trade for a WR and signing a 32 year old pass rusher how is that a long term outlook? If they wanted to bring in their own guys they would’ve kept their picks and used that money a little different.

can’t lie and say I wasn’t pumped by the splash in the off-season it was exciting. But good teams are built in the trenches and we just got manhandled up front on both sides today

It's not a long term outlook and that was my point.  The returning players and lack of overall talent didn't warrant signing older players like that as this team had a zero percent chance at a SB victory.  That was my whole stance all offseason and why I didn't agree with those moves.  Is Adams a top 3 WR, yes he is but were we a top 3 Wr away from a SB run...  Clearly we were not. 

I was saying that this team needs to sign young talent with upside potential.  I was vocal about signing Juju for the last two years and thought he would provide good value at his price tag and age.  He is hitting his stride in KC and proving me right.  

I was never a fan of signing an old Jones but I did think he had something left in the tank, I just don't like signing over 30 players to big contracts on a roster devoid of talent and depth.  I have also been pounding the table for over a decade to find a 3T who can rush the passer and we never do.  We will need an interior rush for our outside pass rushers to reach their full potential.  

[Frankie2Gunz]

6 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yep. 

It's wild. 

Personnel-wise:

We improved on Leatherwood from last year, though that's a ground level bar. But the OL is still a mess, and looking worse. 

We have much better WRs overall. 

At TE Moreau isn't really causing us to skip a beat from what Waller gave last year. 

At RB, Jacobs looks far better. 

Carr looks ok when blocking is decent and the receivers are open. 

So we arguably got better overall on offense, albeit with some holes still. They're playing worse though. That's coaching/scheme. 

On D, the DL isn't that much worse than last year, though Jones was a downgrade from Yannick. 

Ya-Sin, Averette, and Hobbs aren't trash and all have been successful in other schemes. They're better than the Arnette's and Mullen's of the world. 

Deablo looked ok last year, both Perryman and Martinez aren't trash and have both been very successful in recent years. 

Harmon isn't great and Moehrig is still getting broken in, but we don't have Dallin Leavitt and Johnathan Abram constantly f'ing up. 

Overall, the defensive roster is at least as good if not slightly better than last year. 

 

So why do we suck? Coaching and the coach's scheme. Being a .500 team with a slight drop off would've been reasonable given turnover, new playbooks, and that we weren't a fully finished product. But this team looks like one that could very much land a top 5 pick in the draft. That isn't and cannot be acceptable, and that's squarely on this fundamentally broken coaching staff. 

Someone wants to say they inherited trash? Ok. I'll entertain that. They inherited trash and turned it into raw sewage then. Six to one half dozen, the coaching sucks regardless of the excuses. 

I think scheme is a very large part of our troubles.  Gus Bradley ran a very simple D scheme which fit our talent level.  He was able to adapt to not having an interior pass rush and an overall lack of talent across the board.  i don't think Bradley gets enough credit for our averageish D last year which is a major feat considering our lack of talent and depth on that side of the ball.  PG's D scheme has been atrocious and that is being kind. 

The team was playing inspired football last season, this season they look defeated.  That is a completely subjective but perspective but I feel that is the case here.   Why are we palying uninspiring football, who knows but it has to fall on JM. 

[ronjon1990]

5 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Here's how that conversation should have gone:

"Josh, wtf? Don't say a word. Here's what you're going to do:

First, your charity case scholarship DC is gone. Or you can both go now. Take your pick. 

Second, if you decide to stay, your playbook is getting scrapped. It's nearly been half a season and we're still running broken plays and guys still play like it's preseason. I don't care how exotic it is, it isn't working. 

Third, you're playing Munford at RT every snap from here out. If he gets hurt, sign someone. But Eleumenor is done.

Fourth, if you run one more jet sweep with Davante Adams, you're gone. I will walk down to the field and immediately relinquish your duties myself. Actually, I'll fly Jim f*cking Irsay down to come deliver the message for me. 

Lastly, here's a playbook from last year. You're promoting Edgar Bennett to co-OC and giving him play calling duties since he has the most exposure to that system. You have until the end of the season to learn how to be a HC, or you're gone. And if you survive, you can tinker that playbook as a template going forward. "

 

If not, I don't care because it means Mark has no balls. 

 

[dante9876]

Man Miller was awful. Like legit worse left tackle in the league awful. Yuck. 

[SimonGruber]

Just now, dante9876 said:

Man Miller was awful. Like legit worse left tackle in the league awful. Yuck. 

Usually holds his own what gave him trouble I’m guessing it was bull rushes ?

[Devilshark69]

Bars and JE are hot garbage, simple but yet nothing has changed or been done (except to leave our highest graded guy from last wk on the bench) and granted Nola has a more talented d line than Houston but cmon man. You gonna tell me there’s not a better guard out there than bars? Lmfao! And again, why no suh? Cuz of his money demands? Cmon man! The 2 most obvious weakness’s and they’ve been totally ignored for 8 wks? That’s just extremely frustrating to put it lightly. Carr did look shaky from the get go, they sure as heck didn’t do him any favors today though, imo easily our o lines worst game so far..... in both phases. JJ had to dodge defenders in the backfield a bunch today. 

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, dante9876 said:

Man Miller was awful. Like legit worse left tackle in the league awful. Yuck. 

He was bad today but he's been fairly bad all year long. Really not sure what's going on there. 

[Jeremy408]

22 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Yep. 

It's wild. 

Personnel-wise:

We improved on Leatherwood from last year, though that's a ground level bar. But the OL is still a mess, and looking worse. 

We have much better WRs overall. 

At TE Moreau isn't really causing us to skip a beat from what Waller gave last year. 

At RB, Jacobs looks far better. 

Carr looks ok when blocking is decent and the receivers are open. 

So we arguably got better overall on offense, albeit with some holes still. They're playing worse though. That's coaching/scheme. 

On D, the DL isn't that much worse than last year, though Jones was a downgrade from Yannick. 

Ya-Sin, Averette, and Hobbs aren't trash and all have been successful in other schemes. They're better than the Arnette's and Mullen's of the world. 

Deablo looked ok last year, both Perryman and Martinez aren't trash and have both been very successful in recent years. 

Harmon isn't great and Moehrig is still getting broken in, but we don't have Dallin Leavitt and Johnathan Abram constantly f'ing up. 

Overall, the defensive roster is at least as good if not slightly better than last year. 

 

So why do we suck? Coaching and the coach's scheme. Being a .500 team with a slight drop off would've been reasonable given turnover, new playbooks, and that we weren't a fully finished product. But this team looks like one that could very much land a top 5 pick in the draft. That isn't and cannot be acceptable, and that's squarely on this fundamentally broken coaching staff. 

Someone wants to say they inherited trash? Ok. I'll entertain that. They inherited trash and turned it into raw sewage then. Six to one half dozen, the coaching sucks regardless of the excuses. 

Well yeah that's why when @Frankie2Gunz asked me a few weeks back where if the Raiders missed the playoffs but have the same record as last year or were above .500 I would've been fine with that. This isn't that. We've obviously regressed. With OBVIOUSLY better players. at certain positions that we either still or now suck at those positions. 

And when you pay someone from the previous regime you're saying that you are going to be a key part of my regime so the expectation is those players that are under performing are not under performing because of lack of talent or because you just got stuck with them. They are underperforming because you have not implemented a scheme or are calling plays that are getting the most out of them. That is beyond contestation. 

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, Devilshark69 said:

Bars and JE are hot garbage, simple but yet nothing has changed or been done (except to leave our highest graded guy from last wk on the bench) and granted Nola has a more talented d line than Houston but cmon man. You gonna tell me there’s not a better guard out there than bars? Lmfao! And again, why no suh? Cuz of his money demands? Cmon man! The 2 most obvious weakness’s and they’ve been totally ignored for 8 wks? That’s just extremely frustrating to put it lightly. Carr did look shaky from the get go, they sure as heck didn’t do him any favors today though, imo easily our o lines worst game so far..... in both phases. JJ had to dodge defenders in the backfield a bunch today. 

Josh probably spent more time having to run and juke East-West around defenders in the backfield than he spent actually running forward. 

It was fugly.