Lions trade TE T.J. Hockenson to Vikings for 2nd, swap of picks

[Tugboat]

4 minutes ago, cp0k2 said:

If you're referring to blocking, he hasn't performed as advertised coming out of college on that front. 

He's a good receiving TE but wasn't part of Detroit's plans going forward. He was a luxury pick by the previous regime, but this franchise wasn't and still isn't in a position to make luxury picks in the top 10 or pay a premium for a TE. It would be different if he were Kittle or Kelce, but Detroit wasn't going to pay elite TE money to a good TE. So he got to go from 1-6 to 6-1 and hopefully get the extension he wants and Detroit gets some draft capital; could be a win-win-win for the player and the two teams.

I feel like that's mostly the difference between a "young TE learning the NFL game" and in the case of a guy like Logan Brown, "a brand new TE not bothering to learn the position in the NFL game".

 

 

I don't really see any impediment to Hockenson becoming a dominant all-around TE.  I honestly can't believe the Jaguars weren't into this.  I'd much rather swap seconds and then pay TJ a big salary, than trade whatevers for Ridley.  Worst case with TJ Hockenson is what?  You've got an above average TE?  With upside if he continues to grow into the guy he was projected to be?

[Tugboat]

5 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Using the world "clearly" doesn't really quantify why he's a top TE when his top production is very close to a "not really" top TE. Hockenson hasn't produced like a top offensive weapon since he's been in the NFL. 

Hockenson is going to get paid like a premier TE defensive coordinators have to game plan around. He isn't one of those TEs.

I agree it was a good move to trade him for something instead of losing him for nothing or over paying him. 

Except...posting Top-5 sort of TE receiving numbers absolutely does quantify why he's a "Top-TE".  

 

It may not have been consistent in a tumultuous Detroit situation, but he's shown he has the capability to live up to what his draft hype suggested.

 

 

The situation for Detroit might make sense.  I don't know why they're so concerned about the cap at this point, but if they are...sure...maybe that's not where you spend your money.  But that doesn't detract from what he can offer as a player to somebody else.

 

 

I mean...Hockenson would immediately become the 3rd best/most productive TE in Jaguars history.  And he's still super young.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Tugboat

[Nnivolcm]

Just now, Tugboat said:

Except...posting Top-5 sort of TE receiving numbers absolutely does quantify why he's a "Top-TE".  

 

It may not have been consistent in a tumultuous Detroit situation, but he's shown he has the capability to live up to what his draft hype suggested.

 

 

The situation for Detroit might make sense.  I don't know why they're so concerned about the cap at this point, but if they are...sure...maybe that's not where you spend your money.  But that doesn't detract from what he can offer as a player to somebody else.

I'm confused. When two TEs have similar production (one with Stafford one with Heinicke), one of them is proven to be a top TE while the other isn't?

The top tier of TEs includes players like Kelce, Kittle, Waller, Andrews, and Pitts. Hockenson's best year of production doesn't compare to theirs. 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, Nnivolcm said:

I'm confused. When two TEs have similar production (one with Stafford one with Heinicke), one of them is proven to be a top TE while the other isn't?

The top tier of TEs includes players like Kelce, Kittle, Waller, Andrews, and Pitts. Hockenson's best year of production doesn't compare to theirs. 

Hockenson has shown clear quality play outside of that singular year.  And again, is a much more well-rounded TE as a whole.  His "down years" are still very solid and mostly injury-related.

 

Logan Thomas had one obvious as ******* daylight "fluke year".  And literally nothing else.  Nothing he's ever done anywhere else in any other year at any other level as a TE has indicated that was his "expected level" of production.  It was a fluke year.

 

Compared to a TE who has a record of production in college to lean on.  A record of production in the NFL to lean on, where he posted an expected "slow" rookie year, but two very productive "per game" adjusted seasons.  And was off to a very reasonable start this year as well.  Nearly 400 yards and 3TDs isn't good quality play halfway through a season?  Extrapolated to 800 Yards and 6 TDs?  Puts him in the Top-5ish range for TEs on pace this season, offensively.

 

 

What's with the weird need to drag him as though he's not really really good?  Just because he got traded?

[vike daddy]

we like the guy so far. lol

why so serious?

[skywindO2]

Yeah, I think that TJ Hockenson guy might be a pretty good player at his position. 

[swede700]

As far as upside potential, Logan Thomas and TJ Hockenson aren't in the same stratosphere, so I'm not sure why that is being used as a comparison, especially since Thomas is 31 years old (and has been in the league 9 years), and Hockenson is only 25.  

Hockenson has been the #1 receiving option in Detroit and a TE shouldn't have to be that.  He doesn't have to be that here.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by swede700

[Jameson_Neat]

22 minutes ago, swede700 said:

Hockenson has been the #1 receiving option in Detroit and a TE shouldn't have to be that.  He doesn't have to be that here.

Never was the #1 receiving option in Detroit. It would have helped last year if he was to blossom into that but it was apparent he's just not that guy.

 

 

[Kparty15]

4 hours ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

Never was the #1 receiving option in Detroit. It would have helped last year if he was to blossom into that but it was apparent he's just not that guy.

 

 

Last year Hockenson and St. Brown averaged the exact same number (7) of targets per game. Also in only his 2nd year he had over 100 targets and tied Marvin Jones, the #1 WR, in catch percentage.  TJ was absolutely on his way to being capable of carrying an offense as a #1 option.

[Soko]

In all honesty, I think there’s only 4-5 TEs, when healthy, that are capable of being the #1s for their teams. Maybe less, I’m not sure if I trust Waller anymore. Hock’s definitely in that second group, closer to Goedert. Not a bad thing.

[Kparty15]

28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

In all honesty, I think there’s only 4-5 TEs, when healthy, that are capable of being the #1s for their teams. Maybe less, I’m not sure if I trust Waller anymore. Hock’s definitely in that second group, closer to Goedert. Not a bad thing.

Just because he hasn’t done it yet doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable though.  I think that he’s definitely show. The potential to be that type of player as referenced by the 12 target, 179 yard, and 2 touchdown game he had week 4.  He’s still young.  It took guys like Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews 3-4 years to finally break out and reach their potential.  Hockenson is no different.  Now that he is on a decent team he will be more consistent.

[Jameson_Neat]

12 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

Just because he hasn’t done it yet doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable though.  I think that he’s definitely show. The potential to be that type of player as referenced by the 12 target, 179 yard, and 2 touchdown game he had week 4.  He’s still young.  It took guys like Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews 3-4 years to finally break out and reach their potential.  Hockenson is no different.  Now that he is on a decent team he will be more consistent.

Maybe, maybe not, but y'all get to pay to find out.

 

[Soko]

4 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

Just because he hasn’t done it yet doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable though.  

Correct. It’s not “just” because he hasn’t done it yet, though. Pitts hasn’t really done it yet either but I think he’s got the ability to.

I just don’t think Hock’s the route runner or pure receiver that those TEs are. They’re all (Kelce, Andrews, Waller, Pitts, Kittle) sick athletes. They’re all YAC threats. They’re all home run threats from the TE position. 

4 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

I think that he’s definitely show. The potential to be that type of player as referenced by the 12 target, 179 yard, and 2 touchdown game he had week 4.  He’s still young.  

Jonas Gray ran for 200 and 4 once. One game isn’t a sample size for this sort of conversation. 

4 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

It took guys like Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews 3-4 years to finally break out and reach their potential.  Hockenson is no different.  Now that he is on a decent team he will be more consistent.

Kelce and Andrews’ sophomore seasons would stand as career bests for Hockenson…

It’s possible he elevates his game to be that guy. It happens. Chandler Jones transformed in Arizona. Stefon Diggs established himself as an elite receiver in Buffalo. AJB is showing he can handle the volume in Philly that he wasn’t getting in Tennessee. It’s not impossible, it’s just not what I believe is going to happen. He hasn’t shown the skill set of the top guys.

[Scottish_Viking]

On 11/8/2022 at 10:15 PM, Yin-Yang said:

Correct. It’s not “just” because he hasn’t done it yet, though. Pitts hasn’t really done it yet either but I think he’s got the ability to.

I just don’t think Hock’s the route runner or pure receiver that those TEs are. They’re all (Kelce, Andrews, Waller, Pitts, Kittle) sick athletes. They’re all YAC threats. They’re all home run threats from the TE position. 

Jonas Gray ran for 200 and 4 once. One game isn’t a sample size for this sort of conversation. 

Kelce and Andrews’ sophomore seasons would stand as career bests for Hockenson…

It’s possible he elevates his game to be that guy. It happens. Chandler Jones transformed in Arizona. Stefon Diggs established himself as an elite receiver in Buffalo. AJB is showing he can handle the volume in Philly that he wasn’t getting in Tennessee. It’s not impossible, it’s just not what I believe is going to happen. He hasn’t shown the skill set of the top guys.

He was 9 for 9 70 yards after 4 days with his new team. I will take that, already an upgrade on Irv Smith 

[CWood21]

On 11/8/2022 at 3:59 PM, Kparty15 said:

Just because he hasn’t done it yet doesn’t mean that he isn’t capable though.  I think that he’s definitely show. The potential to be that type of player as referenced by the 12 target, 179 yard, and 2 touchdown game he had week 4.  He’s still young.  It took guys like Travis Kelce and Mark Andrews 3-4 years to finally break out and reach their potential.  Hockenson is no different.  Now that he is on a decent team he will be more consistent.

If this were his first or second year in the league, you might be able to make that argument.  But when you're 3.5 years in the league, you're probably going to be the player you've been.  You mentioned Mark Andrews as a guy who took 3-4 years in the league, but the reality is that Lamar Jackson force fed him the ball last year.  He had almost double the amount of targets than any other year in his career.  Even Kelce was a 120+ target TE.  Not sure Hockenson will ever be that kind of TE.