Cwood is a nerd and so are all the Packer Favorite Prospects: 2023 Draft Discussion Thread

[ThatJerkDave]

14 minutes ago, Green19 said:

I think at this point I want a TE early more than a WR. I’m a Mayer guy, because he feels like Jason Witten 2.0… and I will take that all day.

I value the diversity of positional attacking. Don’t get me wrong there are other TEs I like too laporta or Washington in the second are fine too. Just like Mayer… and would enjoy a trade down and getting him at like 26ish.

Then get a Rice, Perry, or Wicks in the second to fifth rounds is good enough for me.

Going into next year with Watson, Doubs, Rice and Mayer…. That sounds really good to me. And that’s a great group to age with Love.

To me, it all comes down to what the board looks like at the time we are on the clock.  I like JSN, a lot.  He is the only WR I would take in the first.  But what if he is there but so are Tyree Wilson and Broderick Jones? I'd probably have to pass on the WR.  And likewise with a TE, I know we eventually have to take one, but I think I feel better about other players that will be there in 1 or 2.  I suppose I just hope that they get a guy that doesn't just stink, because I can promise that not all of these TEs will work out.  

 

3 hours ago, craig said:

In terms of the room, I still imagine it's possible that we'll add the Jets guy to the room, too.  MLF wants his veteran, and he's going to get one somewhere or other. It's just a question of how much $$ and whether that vet is any good or is just a den mother.  

I am stuck on the den mother type.  I would welcome back Randall Cobb or Marcedes Lewis, at the right cost (and yeah, their leadership costs more), as a leader in the club house and a professional for the young players to emulate.  But we have to also recognize that this den mother type is going to take up one of the roster spots, likely at the expense of an additional WR or TE.  And we are not super likely to get great production from them either.  Getting a cheap player that is a mentor and can still get us 800 yards was a pipe dream.

 

 

I also look at Doubs as definitely part of the plan for the receiving group moving forward. I do, and don't like the James Jones comparison, because I think they play different games.  But Jones was always like a 2b for the teams he was on.  A lot of the times he was WR 3.  But he had the ability to step up when his number was called, and you could argue that he was option number one some weeks.  That is kind of what I envision Doubs doing.  Or perhaps this season is Watson 1, Doubs 2, and we find the next Jordy Nelson in the 2024 draft to add to the room.  

[craig]

1. I think JSN is a very fine prospect, and will be a very effective NFL player for whichever team drafts him.  (Probably not the Packers, even if available).
2. Doubs will have lots of opportunity and usage, no matter who the Packers draft this year.  Doubs has a chance to be a very good player.  
3. Were the Packers to hypothetically select JSN, or some other WR in rounds 2 or 3 or 4, such choice will not be superfluous or redundant relative to Doubs. 
4. Gute is a BPA guy.  *IF* Gute were to hypothetically draft JSN, it will be because they scout him very favorably.   "BPA pick", not need pick.  
5. Lots of other guys available at 15 will also become very effective NFL players.  No idea how or who Packers will evaluate as BPA and select.  
6. Packers have no urgency to select a guy who will play a lot immediately as a rookie.  Ted and Gute have often drafted ahead of need.  It's entirely plausible that Gute will draft a player who has some developmental time needed; or who will start on the bench initially, whether blocked by somebody like Bakhti, or Nijman, or Tyler Davis or Rudy Ford.  
7. Packers aren't going to SB this year.  No reason to draft a guy to plug a current roster hole, without that guy being BPA.  
8. Every position group on the Packers would benefit from adding a very good player.  True at S, CB, edge, DL, OL as well as TE and WR. 
9. Top-20 is a great place to get somebody good.  So are picks 43, 45, 79, 112, and 116.  Position groups that aren't strengthened in round 1, Gute will have a bunch more chances to add talent by the middle of round 4.   

[smetana34]

4 hours ago, craig said:

1. I think JSN is a very fine prospect, and will be a very effective NFL player for whichever team drafts him.  (Probably not the Packers, even if available).
2. Doubs will have lots of opportunity and usage, no matter who the Packers draft this year.  Doubs has a chance to be a very good player.  
3. Were the Packers to hypothetically select JSN, or some other WR in rounds 2 or 3 or 4, such choice will not be superfluous or redundant relative to Doubs. 
4. Gute is a BPA guy.  *IF* Gute were to hypothetically draft JSN, it will be because they scout him very favorably.   "BPA pick", not need pick.  
5. Lots of other guys available at 15 will also become very effective NFL players.  No idea how or who Packers will evaluate as BPA and select.  
6. Packers have no urgency to select a guy who will play a lot immediately as a rookie.  Ted and Gute have often drafted ahead of need.  It's entirely plausible that Gute will draft a player who has some developmental time needed; or who will start on the bench initially, whether blocked by somebody like Bakhti, or Nijman, or Tyler Davis or Rudy Ford.  
7. Packers aren't going to SB this year.  No reason to draft a guy to plug a current roster hole, without that guy being BPA.  
8. Every position group on the Packers would benefit from adding a very good player.  True at S, CB, edge, DL, OL as well as TE and WR. 
9. Top-20 is a great place to get somebody good.  So are picks 43, 45, 79, 112, and 116.  Position groups that aren't strengthened in round 1, Gute will have a bunch more chances to add talent by the middle of round 4.   

#8 is why I don't care who we take at 15. Grab the BPA and let's roll. If that's a guard, Bijan, JSN, or a TE then oh well. I trust the staff

[HokieHigh]

11 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

To me, it all comes down to what the board looks like at the time we are on the clock.  I like JSN, a lot.  He is the only WR I would take in the first.  But what if he is there but so are Tyree Wilson and Broderick Jones? I'd probably have to pass on the WR.  And likewise with a TE, I know we eventually have to take one, but I think I feel better about other players that will be there in 1 or 2.  I suppose I just hope that they get a guy that doesn't just stink, because I can promise that not all of these TEs will work out.  

 

I am stuck on the den mother type.  I would welcome back Randall Cobb or Marcedes Lewis, at the right cost (and yeah, their leadership costs more), as a leader in the club house and a professional for the young players to emulate.  But we have to also recognize that this den mother type is going to take up one of the roster spots, likely at the expense of an additional WR or TE.  And we are not super likely to get great production from them either.  Getting a cheap player that is a mentor and can still get us 800 yards was a pipe dream.

 

 

I also look at Doubs as definitely part of the plan for the receiving group moving forward. I do, and don't like the James Jones comparison, because I think they play different games.  But Jones was always like a 2b for the teams he was on.  A lot of the times he was WR 3.  But he had the ability to step up when his number was called, and you could argue that he was option number one some weeks.  That is kind of what I envision Doubs doing.  Or perhaps this season is Watson 1, Doubs 2, and we find the next Jordy Nelson in the 2024 draft to add to the room.  

Tyree wilson would be worth trading up to ~10 for IMO, if he falls to 15 i run the card in.

 

Doubs doesnt remind me of james jones

Edited April 23, 2023 by HokieHigh

[MacReady]

Everyone is going to be pleasantly surprised when we get significantly better production out of our tight ends in the following years without actually investing more in tight ends. I’m 

[R T]

One of the things I love about the draft research is when I get to the little-known prospects and trying to find that diamond in the rough. OL is a place where many of these types of players have found a toehold. One such prospect might be Joey Fisher from D-II Shepherd, played OT in college but very well may find a home at guard in the NFL. 

 

[PackFan13]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Davante Adams:  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AdamDa01.htm

Romeo Doubs: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DoubRo00.htm

 

66 targets vs 67 targets

446 yards vs 425 yards

38 rec vs 42 rec

3 TD vs 3 TD

16 games 11 starts vs 13 games 7 starts

738 snaps (70%) vs 529 snaps (62%)

57.6 catch % vs 62.7 catch %

 

Left is Adams, right is Doubs.  Rookie seasons only.  

 

Give the guy a little time to develop.  He was a 4th round rookie, who lit up camp, played well in season, and battled some injuries along the way.  Doubs will be more than adequate, if he puts in the necessary offseason work.  And there is nothing to suggest that he won't.  He was 10th among rookies in receiving yards, ahead of a lot of guys picked before him.  

If you guys don't think Doubs is part of the plan, or not good enough, I just don't know what you expect.  

interesting stats for future reference what can I use for snap tracks etc?  I'm not saying he isn't a part of the plan and he certainly had some nice moments. I just think he was more opportunities to produce given the lack of talent on the team ahead of him. Watson was out injured so he was the old guy not named Lazard doing anything at camp.

[ThatJerkDave]

5 minutes ago, PackFan13 said:

interesting stats for future reference what can I use for snap tracks etc?  I'm not saying he isn't a part of the plan and he certainly had some nice moments. I just think he was more opportunities to produce given the lack of talent on the team ahead of him. Watson was out injured so he was the old guy not named Lazard doing anything at camp.

On pfr, you can go to game logs and if you scroll down about a third or half way down the page there are snap counts by season as well.  One of my most used sites, tbh.  They have even more info behind a paywall.

 

Doubs also had fully healthy Cobb and Watkins to share snaps with at the beginning of the season.  I know that Sammy had a big game against the Bears, and I believe that one of Randalls higher volume games also came before Watson was back 100%.  Not that either were world beaters at this point in their careers, but they are NFL veterans, and know how to do things the right way, which also garners them playing time earlier in the season.

But to counter my building up of Doubs, we do have Jarrett Boykin.  Because of injuries, he got 83 targets in 2013 and turned that into 681 yards.  And Boykin was probably not any better than Juwann Winfree or J'Mon Moore.  But he got targets, and therefore produced.  Full disclosure, Doubs was one of my 4 "Packer WRs" that I really liked in the 22 draft.  They were Watson, Doubs, George Pickens, and Alec Pierce.  So I do have a bias toward him.

[Mazrimiv]

Anyone know what this is about?

Quote

SCOUTS’ NIGHTMARE

Rashee Rice, WR, Southern Methodist: Has the size (6-0 ½, 205), speed (4.42), athletic ability (41-inch vertical jump) and production (233 receptions, 25 touchdowns) to be a high draft choice. At least one team, however, has removed him from its draft board because of behavioral issues. “He’s talented, but not a good dude,” one personnel director said.

[ThatJerkDave]

7 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

Anyone know what this is about?

HAH!  I called it!

I bet they all just say that because he said he was 6'3 but really isn't.  

But seriously, this is something that I hadn't heard.

[Mazrimiv]

18 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I bet they all just say that because he said he was 6'3 but really isn't.  

I've been claiming an extra 2.5" my entire adult life.  Does that make me a bad dude?

[R T]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:45 PM, R T said:

What the Packers WR board might look like. 

1st tier: Jaxon Smith-Njigba, Quentin Johnston

Both look like middle to late first round picks with JSN as a real possibility at 15. 

2nd tier: Cedric Tillman, Michael Wilson, Rashee Rice, Jonathan Mingo, AT Perry

This group is in that 3rd to 4th round range with most probably 4th rounders. Tillman may not be on their board because of the brutally bad 3-cone, but boy does he fit everything else. Wilson also may not be on their board because of his medical history, but if he is ok'd, I firmly believe the Packers staff will love him. Rice has some off the field issues that might red flag him. 

3rd tier: Parker Washington, Xavier Hutchinson, Bryce Ford-Wheaton, Dontayvion Wicks, Andrei Iosivas, Matt Landers, Elijah Higgins

This group are day 3 types who fit the mold of Gutes draft history for MLF's offense. Yes, I know Washington is 5'10", think Amari Rodgers. The Packers had a plan for Amari in their offense only Aaron had a different plan, and that plan was Cobb. Washington could be a 2.0 in MLF's plan for his offense. 

Priority UDFA types: Jacob Copeland, Colton Dowell, Michael Jefferson, Antonio Green, Grant Dubose, Ryan Miller, Justin Marshall

UDFA's are probably going to be a common thing this draft season, the Packers on average go to training camp with 11 WR on the 90-man and they have 5 WR's on the roster at the moment. They will very likely sign a good locker room veteran, but they are not drafting 5 WR's so the UDFA market will be a thing for them after the draft concludes this year. 

 

19 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

HAH!  I called it!

I bet they all just say that because he said he was 6'3 but really isn't.  

But seriously, this is something that I hadn't heard.

The character issues are no secret and is more than likely the reason for the 30-visit with the Packers. He is about as perfect a fit for the Packers offense as there is in this draft and IF the Packers are comfortable with him there is a strong chance, he is a Packer in a week's time. It is a big IF though. 

[NFLGURU]

10 hours ago, craig said:

1. I think JSN is a very fine prospect, and will be a very effective NFL player for whichever team drafts him.  (Probably not the Packers, even if available).
2. Doubs will have lots of opportunity and usage, no matter who the Packers draft this year.  Doubs has a chance to be a very good player.  
3. Were the Packers to hypothetically select JSN, or some other WR in rounds 2 or 3 or 4, such choice will not be superfluous or redundant relative to Doubs.   

Doubs disappeared down the stretch last year.  I'm not sure if that was injury related after missing time, Rodgers deciding to go in another direction or him hitting the rookie wall.   Hopefully he make a jump in his second year.  There was a lot of hype with Doubs early, and he did flash at times. I'm hoping he takes the next step this year.   

[Mazrimiv]

23 minutes ago, R T said:

The character issues are no secret and is more than likely the reason for the 30-visit with the Packers. He is about as perfect a fit for the Packers offense as there is in this draft and IF the Packers are comfortable with him there is a strong chance, he is a Packer in a week's time. It is a big IF though. 

Hopefully the quote didn't come from a GB exec after their visit.

[Mazrimiv]

Some pretty harsh stuff regarding Jalen Carter from McGinn's draft stuff on GoLong

Quote

That was all about half lies, half-baked truths,” said an executive in personnel for an NFL team. “The championship is over so he’s out from under their purview and he’s racing on the streets of Athens and people get killed. He had to lie like a dog at the combine. And there’s not one person there at Georgia that will endorse him. What are the red flags here?

Edited April 23, 2023 by Mazrimiv