HoF Semifinalists Announced

[Tugboat]

On 11/21/2017 at 7:24 PM, .Buzz said:

Boselli better get in this year.

Freddy Taylor before Boselli even imo.

Neither will get in any time soon though.  Especially not in a year like this with some powerhouse names on the dockett.

[LaserFocus]

7 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Not being flagged and being legal aren't mutually exclusive. Refs can miss calls too, and not ONLY against the Steelers. You also missed how I mentioned those other acts were legal at one time. When the rule is nicknamed after you, that is nothing to be proud of.

You not understanding is an understatement. You'd be up in arms if this was about TO or some other non-Steeler, or if it was a WR that took a cheapshot and broke Antonio Brown's jaw. (even if the hit was by rule legal at the time)  He delivered "other effective blocks?" Shocking... Randy Moss was known for being a mediocre blocker but has thrown many "effective blocks." First you overreach on your ridiculous claim, then you completely undershoot on it.   Can't even stay consistent with your own nonsense. lol   Remember the quote, “Hard to trust honesty of inconsistent person.”

You're a nameless, faceless online persona. I have no reason (nor do you have proof) that you spoke with a number NFL scouts. But by all means, please repeat your nonsense about speaking with them again.

I also forgot how there are truth. Scouts heralded JaMarcus Russell as the next elite QB, so that must mean it was true too...because...NFL scouts... I know, you probably talked to them.

 

 

Please don't compare Randy Moss with Hines Ward when it comes to physicality. While Moss was the overall better WR, he didn't block in the slot, and neutralize defenders sometimes larger than him. Moss also didn't run those short, inside routes like Ward did, that wasn't his strength as a WR.

The difference between Russell and Ward is the fact everyone saw a guy who was overwhelmed at the NFL level, versus someone who delivered in the NFL. My "nonsense" is simply the recorded facts about the era, and way too many people with more knowledge than I agree with the assessment that Ward impacted, or changed football during the 2000s with his standard of blocking. And yes, I do have experience with football at all levels. If you think the additional emphasis on blocking with the mention of Hines Ward was just a coincidence, I simply can't help you. NFL Films doesn't fabricate things, and we have roughly a decade of evidence on tape. Ward's receiving and blocking talents helped both a HOF RB and future HOF QB.     

[LaserFocus]

5 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

No.

Decisively yes. Ward is also better than Donald Driver as well.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Just now, LaserFocus said:

Decisively yes. Ward is also better than Donald Driver as well.

[LaserFocus]

7 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Ward was never in the conversation for best receiver in the NFL at any point in time during his career. Never led in any major statistical category for his position. That's a huge knock on him. Same for a ton of other guys like Derrick Mason, Rod Smith, Irving Fryar, Anquan Boldin,  Keenan McCardell, Donald Driver, or Eric Moulds. Even guys who I think have a stronger case like Jimmy Smith, Sterling Sharpe, Torry Holt, Issac Bruce, and Henry Ellard, it's going to be very hard to get into the HOF.  And guys with better resumes/bigger impact are on the way. I think Ward is going to get lost in the mix. 

Ward was definitely in the grouping of top receivers in the NFL during his peak, and leading in statistical category isn't an official requirement for Canton. Those seven other fine receivers you mentioned just don't have Ward's credentials. Henry Ellard didn't help himself enough in the postseason, and Jimmy Smith has way too many off field issues to overcome right now. I do agree with Bruce and Holt in Canton eventually.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

Just now, LaserFocus said:

Ward was definitely in the grouping of top receivers in the NFL during his peak, and leading in statistical category isn't an official requirement for Canton. Those seven other fine receivers you mentioned just don't have Ward's credentials. Henry Ellard didn't help himself enough in the postseason, and Jimmy Smith has way too many off field issues to overcome right now. I do agree with Bruce and Holt in Canton eventually.

It hurts your more than it does nothing for you. It's basically saying you weren't stacking up to your peers in any given year. That's bad when you're trying to get into the HOF. A lot of the guys I mentioned had better years than Ward when Ward was playing himself. I'm not going to go in depth because I feel like I did that already in a previous conversation. Ward wasn't better than all of those guys though. I'll leave it at that. 

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Ward was definitely in the grouping of top receivers in the NFL during his peak, and leading in statistical category isn't an official requirement for Canton. Those seven other fine receivers you mentioned just don't have Ward's credentials. Henry Ellard didn't help himself enough in the postseason, and Jimmy Smith has way too many off field issues to overcome right now. I do agree with Bruce and Holt in Canton eventually.

In what year of his career was Hines Ward a top 5 receiver in the pros?

[Pugger]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:33 AM, HorizontoZenith said:

I'd love to see Leroy Butler get in eventually.  He's one of less than 10 players in NFL history to finish his career with 20 sacks and 30 interceptions.  38 career interceptions, 20.5 sacks, 13 forced fumbles and 2 touchdowns (including inventing the Lambeau Leap).  John Lynch (26 interceptions, 13 sacks, 0 touchdowns, 10 forced fumbles) will probably get in before him, and that's a damn shame.  He likely has no shot since it just so happens that two of the other 30/20 club members are eligible this year in Barber and Dawkins. 

I don't think he has a shot either.  It is nice for him to be a semi-finalist, tho.

For me I'm hoping Jerry Kramer finally gets in as a senior nominee.  His absence is a joke all these years.

[LaserFocus]

7 hours ago, Sugashane said:

1. Part of his legacy, yes. But it is a small portion because of it being a Hall of Fame, not a Hall of Super Bowl Wins. Dion Branch has 2 rings and a Super Bowl MVP, you want him in the Hall?

2. In any year would Hines have taken their teams to a Super Bowl when they did not? No. Could they have switched spots and improved the PIT offense, yes. Your point is moot.

3. Randy Moss has the same number of postseason TD catches while playing less postseason games. Part of Ward's success was having the defenses keyed more in on Bettis and Co than him. Everyone keyed on Moss for all but the end of his career in SF.

4. It is less safe when you're skirting around rules and have to attack those not looking, and not near the ball at all. Blocks in the back are considered cowardly, these should be too. And again, even Moss delivered direct blocks in his career. Just an empty statement.

1. Ward was a key contributor to that team success, I don't understand why there is a disconnect. Dion Branch was ineffective without Tom Brady, while Ward excelled with the likes of Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox. Huge difference. Branch's career numbers don't approach what Ward accomplished.

2. We can play this interchangable game all Thanksgiving Day long. Would Jerry Rice have SB rings with Detroit, for example. We can only deal with reality, and few WRs could have replicated everything Ward did for the Steelers.

3. Where was Randy Moss in SB 42? We can't blame Ward for having talented teammates, any more than we can blame Jerry Rice for having Roger Craig in the backfield.

4. Moss wasn't remotely in Ward's class as a blocker, please move on.

[LaserFocus]

7 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

In what year of his career was Hines Ward a top 5 receiver in the pros?

Top five is a subjective statement, but Ward was in the grouping of the best in 2001-2003, with 2009 also in the running. Four Pro Bowls before we had the mass exodus of guys skipping the game is impressive. 

[Pugger]

10 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Sterling Sharpe should get in now. If Davis and Warner made it.

First he's gotta get on the ballot and I don't think he played long enough.  Of course Gale Sayers played the same number of seasons so you never know...

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

Top five is a subjective statement, but Ward was in the grouping of the best in 2001-2003, with 2009 also in the running. Four Pro Bowls before we had the mass exodus of guys skipping the game is impressive. 

In 2009 he was tied for 9th in yards and tied for 28th in TDs

In 2003 he was 9th in yards and tied for 4th in TDs with 5 other players

In 2002 he was 4th in yards and 2nd in TDs

In 2001 he was 25th in yards and 45th in TDs

 

He has 1 top 5 year. 

In 2011 Jordy was 9th in yards and 3rd in TDs

In 2014 Jordy was 4th in yards and tied for 2nd in TDs.

In 2016 Jordy was 6th in yards and 1st in TDs.

 

 

Just going by peer to peer comparisons, Nelson has a better peak 3 seasons than Ward does. 

[Sugashane]

24 minutes ago, LaserFocus said:

1. Ward was a key contributor to that team success, I don't understand why there is a disconnect. Dion Branch was ineffective without Tom Brady, while Ward excelled with the likes of Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox. Huge difference. Branch's career numbers don't approach what Ward accomplished.

2. We can play this interchangable game all Thanksgiving Day long. Would Jerry Rice have SB rings with Detroit, for example. We can only deal with reality, and few WRs could have replicated everything Ward did for the Steelers.

3. Where was Randy Moss in SB 42? We can't blame Ward for having talented teammates, any more than we can blame Jerry Rice for having Roger Craig in the backfield.

4. Moss wasn't remotely in Ward's class as a blocker, please move on.

1. Wards career numbers don't come close to true HoF caliber WRs. Let's just look at him vs Bruce and Owens. I'll leave Moss out since you asked me not to bring him in.

Bruce

• Started 201 games and appeared in 223

• 1,024 catches for 15,208 yards

• 91 touchdowns

• 14.9 yards per reception

• Eight seasons of 1,000 yards or more

• Four seasons of 1,200 yards or more

• Four Pro Bowl appearances

Owens

• Started 201 games and appeared in 219

• 15,934 yards receiving

• 153 touchdowns

• 14.8 yards per catch

• Nine seasons of 1,000 yards or more

• Five seasons of 1,200 yards or more

• Six Pro Bowl appearances

Ward

• Started 190 games and appeared in 217

• 1,000 catches for 12,083 yards

• 12.1 yards per catch

• 85 touchdowns

• Six seasons of 1,000 yards or more

• One season of 1,200 yards or more

• Four Pro Bowl appearances

 

But hey, great blocker so lets not judge the WR as a WR... like Moss would as well.

2. Yes we could, and with most WRs worthy of the Hall, Ward would lose by comparison, as noted above.

3. With 5 catches for 62 yards and a TD while being constantly double teamed. You know, that thing that rarely ever happened to Ward by comparison.

4. Point noted, but Ward wasn't nearly as good a WR as the 3 I've mentioned here, or numerous others waiting.

 

 

[RedRider]

6 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

1. Wards career numbers don't come close to true HoF caliber WRs. Let's just look at him vs Bruce and Owens. I'll leave Moss out since you asked me not to bring him in.

His numbers are just slightly lower than Bruce's, so not sure what you're trying to prove there. And no he doesn't come close to Owens, no one would argue he comes close to the 3rd best receiver of all time. Good thing being as good or near Owens isn't the qualification of the HoF.

[Sugashane]

7 minutes ago, RedRider said:

His numbers are just slightly lower than Bruce's, so not sure what you're trying to prove there. And no he doesn't come close to Owens, no one would argue he comes close to the 3rd best receiver of all time. Good thing being as good or near Owens isn't the qualification of the HoF.

When in the same class of eligibility it proves he should be sitting and waiting behind them. Regardless of how you cut it, he is an inferior WR to them.

He wanted to mention QBs Ward had to play with, who were better than Chris Miller who Bruce was able to still get 119 catches, 1781 yards, and 13 TDs with. He did better that year with a garbage QB than Ward ever did in a single season with HoF QB.