Jump to content

HoF Semifinalists Announced

bucsfan333

By bucsfan333
in NFL News

Recommended Posts

LaserFocus

LaserFocus

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

No . . . the "sabermetric" crowd as you choose to label them, understands that winning is a team accomplishment. Hines Ward isn't any less of a player if he wastes away in Cleveland. 

Winning is both a team and individual accomplishment, and the players which contribute to that success, deserve to be recognized. It's just more difficult for a great player to excel in a bad organization. There's a reason why the overwhelming number of HOF players come from winning organizations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TecmoSuperJoe

TecmoSuperJoe

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

I'm a supporter of Bruce for Canton, so this is a change of topic. Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger were a massive upgrade than Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox. In terms of when Ben matured into a HOF QB, maybe it was 2007. That was the year after the near fatal motorcycle accident, when the Steelers made the mistake of rushing him back in 2006.

Bruce had the best season of his career with Chris Miller throwing him the ball. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jetzger

Jetzger

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

Winning is both a team and individual accomplishment, and the players which contribute to that success, deserve to be recognized. It's just more difficult for a great player to excel in a bad organization. There's a reason why the overwhelming number of HOF players come from winning organizations.

Because the voters have the same winning bias and favoritism that you do?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TecmoSuperJoe

TecmoSuperJoe

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, LaserFocus said:

And Hines Ward caught 112 passes from Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox in 2002. Both players will eventually be in the HOF.

Both quarterbacks were better than Miller even though that is a nitpick.

Ward's 112 catches that season were for a 11.9 average. That's almost Mike Furrey territory. This is his best season right? Not that impressive. Especially compared to what Bruce did in 1995: 115 catches for 1781 yards, 15.0 YPC, and 13 TDs. Ward that season may have not even been the best receiver on his team. Plaxico Burress only had 78 catches, but nearly matched Wards yardage output coming up short 4 yards. Ward did find the endzone more I'll give him that. 

Ward might make the HOF. The voters and system clearly aren't perfect. Tons of guys that should have been in years ago aren't in or had to wait an necessarily long time. A couple controversial selections are enshrined. Ward could be next. Playing for a popular franchise and being a media darling will be bigger reasons why Ward gets in if he does to me, because he wasn't on the level of his peers. He could be a senior induction. 

But the point is that someone mentioned their career stats were similar. They aren't. One has clearly had a better career numbers wise. That is why I responded when the comparison between the two was made.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LaserFocus

LaserFocus

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Jetzger said:

Because the voters have the same winning bias and favoritism that you do?

No, because the voters are smart enough to recognize the strong linkage between star players are team success. And the primary function of team sports will always be to win. Yes, there are some great players in the HOF who were mired on mediocre teams, but they are in the minority.

 

7 hours ago, PapaShogun said:

Both quarterbacks were better than Miller even though that is a nitpick.

Ward's 112 catches that season were for a 11.9 average. That's almost Mike Furrey territory. This is his best season right? Not that impressive. Especially compared to what Bruce did in 1995: 115 catches for 1781 yards, 15.0 YPC, and 13 TDs. Ward that season may have not even been the best receiver on his team. Plaxico Burress only had 78 catches, but nearly matched Wards yardage output coming up short 4 yards. Ward did find the endzone more I'll give him that. 

Ward might make the HOF. The voters and system clearly aren't perfect. Tons of guys that should have been in years ago aren't in or had to wait an necessarily long time. A couple controversial selections are enshrined. Ward could be next. Playing for a popular franchise and being a media darling will be bigger reasons why Ward gets in if he does to me, because he wasn't on the level of his peers. He could be a senior induction. 

But the point is that someone mentioned their career stats were similar. They aren't. One has clearly had a better career numbers wise. That is why I responded when the comparison between the two was made.

Never claimed 2002 was Ward's greatest season, and I've already explained speed wasn't his forte. You just weren't going to get the big chunks of yardage most other receivers obtained, and Ward didn't run a ton of deep routes. A blue collar receiver, Ward was great on those shorter routes, often inside. His toughness and physical presence helped pick up those first downs, which kept drives alive and helped win games. And the blocking helped protect a QB, assist the running game, and other receivers once they caught the ball. In a fantasy football era, it's easy to see how Ward is undervalued by some fans, many of whom only use box scores without watching the games. And while other receivers whined and complained about their own stats, embarrassing themselves, Ward helped mentor Antonio Brown at the end of his career.

HOF voters don't care about what franchise a player plays for, it's about performance, and clearly, Ward has HOF-caliber credentials. Not an inner circle WR, but the totality of work will be sufficient sometime down the road. As I've said before, it's not all about the stats. The HOF also looks at what a candidate brings to the table which is different, and the blocking is just another facet of a great career.       

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ChazStandard

ChazStandard

Posted
Posted

TO should have been in last year, and there's no argument against Moss being a 1st ballot guy. They should go in together. Them trying to top each other in their speeches might be fun.

Lewis, as much as I hate him, should go 1st ballot too.

Dawkins was a legend.

Jimmy Johnson to round out the ballot with a coach.

Holt and Bruce are unfortunate. Elite receivers, but never the media personalities of Moss or TO.  They will suffer for their quietness and the glut of talent at WR in the late 90s/early 2000s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Malik

Malik

Posted
Posted

Why are we talking about post season Hines Ward like he was some legendary player when they reached the playoffs. He had some good games and some mediocre ones in the playoffs. Only difference is the number of opportunities he had versus most other WRs in the league. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LaserFocus

LaserFocus

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Malik said:

Why are we talking about post season Hines Ward like he was some legendary player when they reached the playoffs. He had some good games and some mediocre ones in the playoffs. Only difference is the number of opportunities he had versus most other WRs in the league. 

Never said Ward was a legendary postseason player like Jerry Rice, but the records show a strong history, especially when compared with other WRs already enshrined. And Ward's success in the regular season was part of the reason those Steelers teams reached the playoffs many times. Putting aside the SB XL MVP award, Ward had other terrific playoff games. The 2002 playoff win over Cleveland was one of the greatest playoff comebacks in NFL history, and Ward was sensational. 11 receptions, including a fourth down conversion to help the win. 

Ward was vastly superior to a player some are pushing for Canton, Henry Ellard. Ellard managed just one 100 yard receiving game in the postseason, and in his other nine opportunities, caught a grand total of 20 passes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
LaserFocus

LaserFocus

Posted
Posted
Just now, LaserFocus said:

Never said Ward was a legendary postseason player like Jerry Rice, but the records show a strong history, especially when compared with other WRs already enshrined. And Ward's success in the regular season was part of the reason those Steelers teams reached the playoffs many times. Putting aside the SB XL MVP award, Ward had other terrific playoff games. The 2002 playoff win over Cleveland was one of the greatest playoff comebacks in NFL history, and Ward was sensational. 11 receptions, including a fourth down conversion to help the win. 

Ward was vastly superior to a player some are pushing for Canton, Henry Ellard. Ellard managed just one 100 yard receiving game in the postseason, and in his other nine opportunities, caught a grand total of 20 passes.

Oops, should have said Ward was vastly better in the postseason than Ellard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...