Free Agency

[Louis Friend]

1 hour ago, HashtagFTW said:

I understand but that doesn't invalidate what I said. Go to the rams page. They don't seem too upset he's gone. 

Probably because they know they need to make cuts just to get to 0 and Wagner is the least valuable out of their top guys. 

[Just Want A Title]

14 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Bobby Wagner was just released by the Rams. 

Wagner or David are intriguing FA options for us at ILB. Both are playing at an elite level despite their age. As a team that is on the up, these could be appealing targets for us and for them as guys who want to win. 

If we could get Bobby Wagner on a reasonable two-year deal that would be amazing.  Pick up another solid LB prospect in the draft like Henley, Pappoe or Campbell.  Then let Rodriguez and their young LB learn from him.  

[Just Want A Title]

10 hours ago, Superduperman said:

I don't understand anyone saying draft Bijan. There are RB's beyond number in this draft.

Even though Bijan Robinson plays a position that is not highly valued right now, everything I have read about him says he is one of the few players that carries a truly "elite" draft grade.  He is a 3-down player from day 1.   He can run pass routes as good as some WRs.  He has good size.  He has much better speed and elusiveness than you would expect from a guy who is 6-feet tall and comes in between 215-220 Lbs.  In short, he can do everything you could ask from a RB at a high level from Day 1.  Jahmyr Gibbs is that only other RB prospect that is close in terms of skill but probably comes in around 200-205 Lbs.  Most other RB prospects would be role players in a RB-by-Committee situation.

 

[Superduperman]

56 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

Even though Bijan Robinson plays a position that is not highly valued right now, everything I have read about him says he is one of the few players that carries a truly "elite" draft grade.  He is a 3-down player from day 1.   He can run pass routes as good as some WRs.  He has good size.  He has much better speed and elusiveness than you would expect from a guy who is 6-feet tall and comes in between 215-220 Lbs.  In short, he can do everything you could ask from a RB at a high level from Day 1.  Jahmyr Gibbs is that only other RB prospect that is close in terms of skill but probably comes in around 200-205 Lbs.  Most other RB prospects would be role players in a RB-by-Committee situation.

 

So what

[Louis Friend]

2 hours ago, Just Want A Title said:

Even though Bijan Robinson plays a position that is not highly valued right now, everything I have read about him says he is one of the few players that carries a truly "elite" draft grade.  He is a 3-down player from day 1.   He can run pass routes as good as some WRs.  He has good size.  He has much better speed and elusiveness than you would expect from a guy who is 6-feet tall and comes in between 215-220 Lbs.  In short, he can do everything you could ask from a RB at a high level from Day 1.  Jahmyr Gibbs is that only other RB prospect that is close in terms of skill but probably comes in around 200-205 Lbs.  Most other RB prospects would be role players in a RB-by-Committee situation.

 

We run a RB by committee. I don't have an elite grade on Robinson. He doesn't suck. And he's the best RB in this draft. But this position is deep, the monetary value isn't there for a 1st Rd RB for me, and to be honest, I have higher grades on guys others are overlooking because RBs are a shiny toy. 

I understand why sports writers bring up every hot button player in the offseason. They are seeking engagement, good or bad. The issue is, casual fans who don't want college football, and don't invest as much into the teams as we do, only know these guys by what these sports writers are projecting. Then these casuals get pissed when we pass on their flavors of the week. 

Two weeks ago, writers were pushing the Bryan Bresee topic. Now they are having fans argue between taking Bijan or Anthony Richardson. Not one of them have discussed Brian Branch, O'Cyrus Torrence, Antonio Johnson, etc. 

[Karnage84]

12 hours ago, HashtagFTW said:

I understand but that doesn't invalidate what I said. Go to the rams page. They don't seem too upset he's gone. 

It was one guy that said "he's washed up". They seemed more focused on gaining the $10M to help out the OL from what I gather. 

[Just Want A Title]

1 hour ago, Superduperman said:

So what

When Jamal Williams is in the game, defenses know how he is going to run and he isn't the type of back who will break off long runs.  He is also 28 years old.  De'Andre Swift is what he is:  an inconsistent RB who might give you 1-2 big games per year. Bijan Robinson get run with power.  He has plus speed, elusiveness and vision.  He is also a really good receiver.  We would be able to disguise what they are doing and exploit defenses at every level at any time.  The aggressiveness and mis-direction that the Lions to use would be unleashed with no limitations.

[Just Want A Title]

8 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

We run a RB by committee. I don't have an elite grade on Robinson. He doesn't suck. And he's the best RB in this draft. But this position is deep, the monetary value isn't there for a 1st Rd RB for me, and to be honest, I have higher grades on guys others are overlooking because RBs are a shiny toy. 

I understand why sports writers bring up every hot button player in the offseason. They are seeking engagement, good or bad. The issue is, casual fans who don't want college football, and don't invest as much into the teams as we do, only know these guys by what these sports writers are projecting. Then these casuals get pissed when we pass on their flavors of the week. 

Two weeks ago, writers were pushing the Bryan Bresee topic. Now they are having fans argue between taking Bijan or Anthony Richardson. Not one of them have discussed Brian Branch, O'Cyrus Torrence, Antonio Johnson, etc. 

We run a RB by committee because our roster was bereft of talent and in "cap jail" when Brad Holmes took over.  Jamal Williams has been better than anyone could have predicted.  Even if we re-sign him we have nothing else that we can count on.

[Louis Friend]

26 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

We run a RB by committee because our roster was bereft of talent and in "cap jail" when Brad Holmes took over.  Jamal Williams has been better than anyone could have predicted.  Even if we re-sign him we have nothing else that we can count on.

Let me ask you honestly, when's the last time we ran a workhorse RB? As an organization? Which teams feature a workhorse RB? Which of those won in the postseason? I'm really trying not to be a smartass, I'm interested. Because I cannot remember the Lions having a workhorse RB since Kevin Smith and that was more so lack of players and not because he was that good. Barry Sanders was that good and he retired early due to his body shutting down. 

When I think of Zeke Elliott, Derrick Henry, Saquan Barkley, Nick Chubb... I'm not seeing how that is a successful team strategy. The RBs had dominant seasons, but their teams did not achieve. And then their windows are closed. If you are trying to see tickets and merchandise, great move. If you are trying to win a contending team, that's horrible return on investment. 

It's also why I won't draft a TE in the first round. I won't draft a K or P in the first 5 rounds. The value is just not there. 

 

 

[LionArkie]

36 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said:

We run a RB by committee because our roster was bereft of talent and in "cap jail" when Brad Holmes took over.  Jamal Williams has been better than anyone could have predicted.  Even if we re-sign him we have nothing else that we can count on.

2022

Rushing Yards 2491

Rushing (Plays-Avg Yards) - 477-5.2

Rushing Td's 22

These are just some basic stats, but for me, I don't know if it constitutes a first round pick at rb. Now if someone argued overall bpa, I mean I guess, but even at that I think their is a positional value as well and in the first round coupled with last years stats then Robinson just doesn't do it for me. That's not to take away he being better than Swift, or any other rb in this years class. But would he bring more value than a DB, DL, or even OL when you can get one of the best ones in the first? Would he significantly make that much difference behind this OL then say whoever you could get in the second or 3rd round. So I think for the team, I'd rather go with a positional value in the first and taking the rb by committee approach. I think it helps more in the long game, and I'll take 2400+ yards a year with running backs not taken in the first.... but he is a very nice shiny toy and there could be worst things we could do.

Edited February 24, 2023 by LionArkie

[General Tso]

Wagner would be my #1 target at this point. If you wanted Lavonte David, you would want him, as he graded even higher at a similar age, but the kicker here is he was cut, so he doesn't factor into the comp pick formula. We might have to overpay, but I'd be willing to do it for 2 years.

[Karnage84]

6 minutes ago, Louis Friend said:

Let me ask you honestly, when's the last time we ran a workhorse RB? As an organization? Which teams feature a workhorse RB? Which of those won in the postseason? I'm really trying not to be a smartass, I'm interested. Because I cannot remember the Lions having a workhorse RB since Kevin Smith and that was more so lack of players and not because he was that good. Barry Sanders was that good and he retired early due to his body shutting down. 

When I think of Zeke Elliott, Derrick Henry, Saquan Barkley, Nick Chubb... I'm not seeing how that is a successful team strategy. The RBs had dominant seasons, but their teams did not achieve. And then their windows are closed. If you are trying to see tickets and merchandise, great move. If you are trying to win a contending team, that's horrible return on investment. 

It's also why I won't draft a TE in the first round. I won't draft a K or P in the first 5 rounds. The value is just not there. 

 

 

When you're talking about Zeke and Chubb, both of those guys had their roles reduced by bringing in other assets for playing time (Pollard and Hunt). So even the bellcow's only last for so long before they get put into some form of a committee. 

[Sllim Pickens]

4 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

When you're talking about Zeke and Chubb, both of those guys had their roles reduced by bringing in other assets for playing time (Pollard and Hunt). So even the bellcow's only last for so long before they get put into some form of a committee. 

Yeah, and Barkley had great bookend years around major injuries.  Breece Hall got hurt last year, Kenneth Walker as well.  So many RBs get hurt or miss time its just hard to invest a first into it.  If Bijan is there n the second, take him.  But not in the first.  If we resign Williams and draft someone in the mid/late rounds I am fine at RB.  So many holes that need to be filled and he isnt far and away BPA IMO anyways until the second round.  

[Karnage84]

Just now, Sllim Pickens said:

Yeah, and Barkley had great bookend years around major injuries.  Breece Hall got hurt last year, Kenneth Walker as well.  So many RBs get hurt or miss time its just hard to invest a first into it.  If Bijan is there n the second, take him.  But not in the first.  If we resign Williams and draft someone in the mid/late rounds I am fine at RB.  So many holes that need to be filled and he isnt far and away BPA IMO anyways until the second round.  

If Bijan is there at 31... MAYBE you could convince me to trade up for him if we're not giving up considerable assets (or if we traded down from #6 and gained some extra stuff). He's going to be a really good player but we've seen that guys are either going to get hurt and/or drop off a cliff quickly. You should be getting a high end regular starting guy at any position if you're taking them with a 1st round pick. 

[Sllim Pickens]

4 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

If Bijan is there at 31... MAYBE you could convince me to trade up for him if we're not giving up considerable assets (or if we traded down from #6 and gained some extra stuff). He's going to be a really good player but we've seen that guys are either going to get hurt and/or drop off a cliff quickly. You should be getting a high end regular starting guy at any position if you're taking them with a 1st round pick. 

Not sure I am interested in giving up what it would take to move up to 31.  If we move down from 18 to that area and gain some extra picks and/or a high pick next year then maybe but too many holes and needs right now to spend extra assets moving up for a RB.  Unless its super cheap.