Off-Ball Linebacker Talk

[Ozzy]

6 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

I think Campbell is gonna time fine. He plays slower than he is because of his trigger speed.

Pace is not a great athlete. I love his game, but I think he’s gonna struggle to play with the big boys. He’s not particularly good at anything other than “bringing it” on an every down basis. He’s a tough kid, but he is smaller and slower than most starting LBs.

He is so bad at disengaging from blocks. It’s like he runs away from OL rather than uses his hands to shock. I think he’s going to be another stat grabber who might have a lot of tackles, despite not being as good as the numbers indicate. He shoots windows with more aggression than Campbell, but is hesitant if there isn’t a gap to fly through.

Cam Jones is a thumper. He has speed in a straight line, but is not good in space. I could see him contributing with a 3-4 squad, but I am not sure he’s gonna start. 
 

Haven’t watched Banks. Charlie Thomas is someone I would consider late, but he’s a major project and not at all a refined LB. More of a nickel LBer, but he could be effective in that role.

I would say his stats have been disappointing. But he’s been great as far as assignment and flashing the ability to do the things he’ll be asked to do in the NFL. Plus he does have that wild upside. 

Yeah and that’s why NFL defenses are getting gashed in the run game every week. This move to small speedy linebackers isn’t making defenses better & the stats back that up. Teams that invest, and play the game with real LBs have been excellent, especially at making teams 1-dimensional. 

He is an @$$ kicker that puts holes through peoples chests. He’s definitely flawed, but he’s got an insanely fast trigger and has stopping power on a level not many other MLBs in the NFL can claim. He’s also not totally useless in coverage, although he’s pretty much a zone dropper. I think he’s gonna decimate the A and B gaps in the pros. Teams that run longer power tracks with multiple TEs will be tough for him, as I could see his aggressive nature and lack of elite lateral speed getting him pinned inside on down blocks. But Zone and Iso teams are gonna get a face full of angry Samoan. 

Bengals, Chiefs, Eagles and 49ers all have 2 or 3 starting LBs that can really run.  Only guy on either roster as a starter that is not super athletic at LB is TJ Edwards.  

That it seems is all teams want, a LB who can fly around and take and deliver contact.  

 

Ivan Pace Jr I feel is a great looking athlete that can really get off blocks for a guy his size, really uses leverage and a strong lower body.  Not sure how he is not a great athlete, granted maybe some of it was playing ILB but I would not be shocked if he is a ILB in a 3/4.  Pace seems like what the NFL wants, very similar to say Dre Greenlaw who is doing great on the 49ers.  Granted Pace would need to be in the right system for sure.

 

 

I did not know Campbell played basketball, is pretty impressive for a dude like that.  Maybe he is a better athlete than most think.  

 

 

These guys I could see transitioning to a LB type role or literally becoming a LB in the NFL.  Skinner is a massive dude and fine tackler, would not be shocked if he become a LB in a certain system.  Same with Hickman.  Branch probably not but honestly he is so good around the line of scrimmage I could see him being a slot defender or safety that comes down to the slot a lot.  Conner I could see that as well, Sutherland already transitioned to LB similar to Frierson but both of them probably will not be drafted.

 

Brian Branch Alabama JR
JL Skinner Boise State
Ronnie Hickman Ohio State JR
Chamarri Conner Virginia Tech RS*
Jonathan Sutherland Penn State RS
Gilbert Frierson Miami FL RS
 

[Hawkeyejam]

43 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Campbell is gonna time nicely. He just is very overrated as far as reading and reacting. I know people see a white LB and assume he can tackle and is elite with his reads. Stereotyping these dudes. But Campbell is actually very slow to trigger in the run game and while he is a good wrap-up tackler, he’s not much of a stop hitter. He’s got good instincts as a zone dropper, sure. But he’s not this awesome run fitter. I was surprised when I watched tape at how slow he was to react. Not how slow he was tracking, but that initial read.

I do like Seth Benson actually. He’s a little spark plug. I like Campbell more, but Benson is the more aggressive of the two and still has some coverage skills. 

I agree with a lot of what u said. Campbell is great at identifying offenses and calling the right adjustments when it comes to alignments/adjustments, but he has a tendency once the play starts as almost like he's leaning on his back foot before he diagnoses what gap or lane he needs to pursue. You can tell when his trigger is quick and where he is when he's delayed. The Iowa D is very reliant on positional responsibility and its an area when Iowa defensive players can catch criticism going into draft.

I do think Campbell is a sure fire pick with a very high floor. He shows flashes of quick diagnosis. He really enjoys a similar coach to his own persona but getting in the hands of a coach outside his comfort zone will really benefit him imo. He's super coachable, high work ethic, and a good glue guy for a locker room. I really think he's a great pick in Rd 2-3.

I really like this year's cycle of players out of Iowa. Only guy I'm really uncertain of is Riley Moss. He's gonna test very fast but as scheme dependent of any Iowa recruit in last decade. He has to go to a Zone team. He can get beat by high level players in Man and over pursues at times

 

 

 

[NYRaider]

17 hours ago, Daniel said:

Noah Sewell shouldn't be picked before Day 3 IMO.  I don't know what people see there at all.

I wanted to like him but just wasn't impressed at all when I watched him. Drew Sanders popped for me though, if he tests well I think he could move into the late 1st.

[jetsfan4life51]

I really like Daiyan Henley. How’s Dee Winters as a Day 3?

[Scoundrel]

In a copy cat league I see some team attempting to use Sanders as Parsons lite. Obviously he isn’t the same level athlete but he is a plus athlete. He lacks the mass to play on the edge as much as Micah but situationally he can be used there and be able to be moved around the front. His measurable and athletic testing will be interesting to see. He’s a SOC and played some high school QB.

[BetterCallSaul]

18 hours ago, Hawkeyejam said:

I agree with a lot of what u said. Campbell is great at identifying offenses and calling the right adjustments when it comes to alignments/adjustments, but he has a tendency once the play starts as almost like he's leaning on his back foot before he diagnoses what gap or lane he needs to pursue. You can tell when his trigger is quick and where he is when he's delayed. The Iowa D is very reliant on positional responsibility and its an area when Iowa defensive players can catch criticism going into draft.

I do think Campbell is a sure fire pick with a very high floor. He shows flashes of quick diagnosis. He really enjoys a similar coach to his own persona but getting in the hands of a coach outside his comfort zone will really benefit him imo. He's super coachable, high work ethic, and a good glue guy for a locker room. I really think he's a great pick in Rd 2-3.

I really like this year's cycle of players out of Iowa. Only guy I'm really uncertain of is Riley Moss. He's gonna test very fast but as scheme dependent of any Iowa recruit in last decade. He has to go to a Zone team. He can get beat by high level players in Man and over pursues at times

 

 

 

Riley Moss is a white corner. Of course he’s going to a Cover 2 team. 

[lark25]

Noah Sewell to me looks a lot like Leo Chenal except without the freak athleticism. 

I think Jack Campbell tests decently, perhaps a bit like Devin Lloyd and is a good player with a high floor. I'd say he's the best sure-fire day 1 starter but 2 or 3 other guys may be better with further dev.

Simpson or Sanders have the traits to be really good but don't have as high floors. I think Simpson is LB1 for most teams if tests as expected but Campbell or perhaps Sanders could be a better fit for some teams.

I think Sewell is also OK but 1st round talk is crazy. Was a non factor Put the other 3 guys mentioned perhaps 1 or 2 others above him based on all of that.

Player comps?

[NYRaider]

10 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

In a copy cat league I see some team attempting to use Sanders as Parsons lite. Obviously he isn’t the same level athlete but he is a plus athlete. He lacks the mass to play on the edge as much as Micah but situationally he can be used there and be able to be moved around the front. His measurable and athletic testing will be interesting to see. He’s a SOC and played some high school QB.

He looks like a taller Drue Tranquill.

[Hawkeyejam]

3 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Riley Moss is a white corner. Of course he’s going to a Cover 2 team. 

If you get time do a deep dive on Cooper DeJean from Iowa. He may be the dude that bucks that trend. Legitimate Iowa White CB that will be eligible for 2024 draft. Dude might be a first rounder. He's special

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, NYRaider said:

He looks like a taller Drue Tranquill.

He’s a better pass rusher than Drue

[NYRaider]

Just now, Scoundrel said:

He’s a better pass rusher than Drue

He's bigger and rangier but Drue was super effective as a pass rusher this season. Where do you think he's going to get picked?

[Scoundrel]

7 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

He's bigger and rangier but Drue was super effective as a pass rusher this season. Where do you think he's going to get picked?

Sanders? 20-30. Sanders is a better pass rusher as a prospect. Drue had some good rushing moments this year but Sanders comes in a better rusher. 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Hawkeyejam said:

If you get time do a deep dive on Cooper DeJean from Iowa. He may be the dude that bucks that trend. Legitimate Iowa White CB that will be eligible for 2024 draft. Dude might be a first rounder. He's special

I was going to bring him up, that dude is legit but similar to Riley Moss he might be switched to safety in the NFL.  DeJean is tough has hell though, great on special teams and is put together.  Very promising DB and yes he is a 1st rounder as of right now I would say potentially for 2024.  

[lark25]

9 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Sanders? 20-30. Sanders is a better pass rusher as a prospect. Drue had some good rushing moments this year but Sanders comes in a better rusher. 

Drue is one of the better LBS in the league (except injuries), particularly as a pass rusher but I think more of a Micah Parsons type but not the absolute mutant level athlete Parsons is.

Sanders almost has a bit of TJ Watt about him too

[Scoundrel]

7 minutes ago, lark25 said:

Drue is one of the better LBS in the league (except injuries), particularly as a pass rusher but I think more of a Micah Parsons type but not the absolute mutant level athlete Parsons is.

Sanders almost has a bit of TJ Watt about him too

I’m not knocking Drue’s pass rush ability. I think as a prospect coming in Sanders is a better pass rusher than Drue was. And I’ll stand all day by that swinging. And your TJ Watt comparison makes my point. Watt is a better pass rusher than Parsons.