warfelg Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Art_Vandalay said: I don't understand how the Ravens can be considered the bad guys here. They used the tag that they knew puts Lamar and other teams in the worst place. Transition - Teams can offer a contract and possibly worry about trade compensation later. Exclusive - Allows Lamar and Baltimore to maybe find a trade partner without the parameters of a trade set. Non-Exclusive - The price on signing him from picks and contract is basically set, then you are using your cap to act as Lamar’s agent for the Ravens. They knew the “best” option for them (smaller cap hold as well as the above) was also the one that put Lamar in the weakest negotiating position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, warfelg said: They used the tag that they knew puts Lamar and other teams in the worst place. Transition - Teams can offer a contract and possibly worry about trade compensation later. Exclusive - Allows Lamar and Baltimore to maybe find a trade partner without the parameters of a trade set. Non-Exclusive - The price on signing him from picks and contract is basically set, then you are using your cap to act as Lamar’s agent for the Ravens. They knew the “best” option for them (smaller cap hold as well as the above) was also the one that put Lamar in the weakest negotiating position. Not saying that this excuses the Ravens for how they are contributing to this, but Lamar put himself in the weakest negotiating position long ago by not having an agent, not working with them at all in negotiations (demanding only a certain amount of fully guaranteed), and also making this so public. With these three qualities, I could see many potential suitors completely dropping out because they don't want the headache...especially for a guy who hasn't really won his team anything of note 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 1 minute ago, warfelg said: They used the tag that they knew puts Lamar and other teams in the worst place. Transition - Teams can offer a contract and possibly worry about trade compensation later. Exclusive - Allows Lamar and Baltimore to maybe find a trade partner without the parameters of a trade set. Non-Exclusive - The price on signing him from picks and contract is basically set, then you are using your cap to act as Lamar’s agent for the Ravens. They knew the “best” option for them (smaller cap hold as well as the above) was also the one that put Lamar in the weakest negotiating position. 1) The NFLPA and the Owners negotiate the CBA. They knew that tag was available for use. Should teams not use the tags available? 2) If he was Mahomes or Burrow, this wouldn't even be an issue. Someone would offer them a fully gtd contract immediately. But Lamar isn't top 5 at this point when you take into account durability and I don't think it's really debatable. 3) I'm going to keep saying this. Not a single person looks at the Browns and thinks that's a competent franchise. Just because the incompetent team yet again does something stupid, this doesn't mean other teams should feel obligated to also be stupid. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dbrog24 said: Not saying that this excuses the Ravens for how they are contributing to this, but Lamar put himself in the weakest negotiating position long ago by not having an agent, not working with them at all in negotiations (demanding only a certain amount of fully guaranteed), and also making this so public. With these three qualities, I could see many potential suitors completely dropping out because they don't want the headache...especially for a guy who hasn't really won his team anything of note For sure he shoulders some of the blame. But the Ravens certainly didn’t help the situation. In fact I think the self representation isn’t as but of a deal as most think outside of maybe hard to get ahold of. Hopkins represents himself, so did Sherman, Okung, Tunsil, Wagner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Art_Vandalay said: 1) The NFLPA and the Owners negotiate the CBA. They knew that tag was available for use. Should teams not use the tags available? 2) If he was Mahomes or Burrow, this wouldn't even be an issue. Someone would offer them a fully gtd contract immediately. But Lamar isn't top 5 at this point when you take into account durability and I don't think it's really debatable. 3) I'm going to keep saying this. Not a single person looks at the Browns and thinks that's a competent franchise. Just because the incompetent team yet again does something stupid, this doesn't mean other teams should feel obligated to also be stupid. 1) The non-exclusive isn’t a frequently applied tag because teams know agents are savvy. 2) I call BS. Fully GTD contracts is a line owners don’t want to cross. Read up on how GTD money is handled and you’ll understand why. 3) What does that have to do with the post you just quoted other than wanting to spout off the same thing over and over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, warfelg said: For sure he shoulders some of the blame. But the Ravens certainly didn’t help the situation. In fact I think the self representation isn’t as but of a deal as most think outside of maybe hard to get ahold of. Hopkins represents himself, so did Sherman, Okung, Tunsil, Wagner. Roquan Smith is self represented and the Ravens signed him to a $100 million deal with him this January. It's a Lamar problem, not a self representation problem. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art_Vandalay Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 10 minutes ago, warfelg said: 1) The non-exclusive isn’t a frequently applied tag because teams know agents are savvy. 2) I call BS. Fully GTD contracts is a line owners don’t want to cross. Read up on how GTD money is handled and you’ll understand why. 3) What does that have to do with the post you just quoted other than wanting to spout off the same thing over and over? 1) The Ravens didn't do anything shady. They used a tag that was available and that the NFLPA apparently didn't have a problem with. Lamar thinks he's worth something that he's not so Baltimore applied it to prove their point. 2) You honestly believe that if Patrick Mahomes was available, teams wouldn't be lining up with fully guaranteed offers? There would be 10 teams minimum making offers because he's he's a force multiplier and he's always available. 3) Anyone who's defending Lamar is doing so because they're looking at Deshaun Watson. Therefore, I just feel I need to keep reiterating. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Roquan Smith is self represented and the Ravens signed him to a $100 million deal with him this January. It's a Lamar problem, not a self representation problem. Which is my point. Players self represent more often. He’s stubborn in what he wants. The second part plays more into it than the first part. Just now, Art_Vandalay said: 1) The Ravens didn't do anything shady. They used a tag that was available and that the NFLPA apparently didn't have a problem with. Lamar thinks he's worth something that he's not so Baltimore applied it to prove their point. 2) You honestly believe that if Patrick Mahomes was available, teams wouldn't be lining up with fully guaranteed offers? There would be 10 teams minimum making offers because he's he's a force multiplier and he's always available. 3) Anyone who's defending Lamar is doing so because they're looking at Deshaun Watson. Therefore, I just feel I need to keep reiterating. 1) Tell me where I said Baltimore did anything shady. Please. All I said is they did what they knew puts Lamar in the weakest negotiating position. 2) No I don’t believe they would. Number one you have to put all that money up front in an escrow to pay players out of with GTD money. Number two if you commit 25% of your cap to a guy with money that you can’t move or do anything with and that guy wants out or has a career ending injury you are screwed. 3) Not what’s happening at all so your completely making something up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 40 minutes ago, warfelg said: They used the tag that they knew puts Lamar and other teams in the worst place. Transition - Teams can offer a contract and possibly worry about trade compensation later. Exclusive - Allows Lamar and Baltimore to maybe find a trade partner without the parameters of a trade set. Non-Exclusive - The price on signing him from picks and contract is basically set, then you are using your cap to act as Lamar’s agent for the Ravens. They knew the “best” option for them (smaller cap hold as well as the above) was also the one that put Lamar in the weakest negotiating position. But that doesn’t exactly make them the bad guy…it makes them smart. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Just now, JaguarCrazy2832 said: But that doesn’t exactly make them the bad guy…it makes them smart. Doesn’t exactly make them the good guy either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Also while i agree the Ravens did nothing wrong as far as using the tag, lets not act like just because its in CBA it means the players are fine with it. Its about compromise its just this is probably something they caved on to get something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Just now, warfelg said: Doesn’t exactly make them the good guy either. It doesnt have to be black and white though…although in this situation with owners and their priors maybe I should’ve phrased it differently There doesnt have to be a good and bad guy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 I know we cant know what the contract details that were offered but until we do its hard to say that either side is bad If the Ravens offered 3 years at 90 Million partially guaranteed then yea they look bad If Ravens offered 3 years 120 million fully guaranteed…i mean its hard to say they are the bad guy here… Lamar wants his $ bc he himself knows more than anyone that he gets hurt and his legs are how he makes his $ but the Ravens know that too and want assurances 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 34 minutes ago, warfelg said: For sure he shoulders some of the blame. But the Ravens certainly didn’t help the situation. In fact I think the self representation isn’t as but of a deal as most think outside of maybe hard to get ahold of. Hopkins represents himself, so did Sherman, Okung, Tunsil, Wagner. So the self representation isn't a big deal... 32 minutes ago, warfelg said: 1) The non-exclusive isn’t a frequently applied tag because teams know agents are savvy. 2) I call BS. Fully GTD contracts is a line owners don’t want to cross. Read up on how GTD money is handled and you’ll understand why. 3) What does that have to do with the post you just quoted other than wanting to spout off the same thing over and over? Yet point #1 makes it just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 2 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: I know we cant know what the contract details that were offered but until we do its hard to say that either side is bad If the Ravens offered 3 years at 90 Million partially guaranteed then yea they look bad If Ravens offered 3 years 120 million fully guaranteed…i mean its hard to say they are the bad guy here… Lamar wants his $ bc he himself knows more than anyone that he gets hurt and his legs are how he makes his $ but the Ravens know that too and want assurances I feel like at this point we know the details. Schefter reported it and Lamar all but confirmed it in his tongue-in-cheek reply. The Ravens offered a 3-year/$120 or whatever fully guaranteed deal, with more guarantees based on injuries and stuff that brought it up to like $175 or $200 or whatever that number was, which I feel personally was a more than fair deal for both sides given that if Lamar stays healthy, the Ravens aren't cutting him after that 3rd year. If Lamar gets injured, he still got $175M fully guaranteed and if the Ravens cut him he can sign another contract in his age 29/30 year in free agency. But...you know, to each their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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