StLunatic88 Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 2 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: And I think you're underrating the Value of Carson Kelly, and it's a typical BFIB reaction . I still think Kelly has a bright future as well, and I wish it was with the Cardinals, but Yadi wont play 1st so thats out of the question. We arent going to wait for Kelly's first year of Arbitration before hes even a starter. My point is that his Trade Value was never higher than last year. He was the best Catching prospect in baseball in most peoples eyes. He has now lost that perceived value. He is still a good chip, and could be a corner stone for another franchise. But there is no arguing than he holds less value as a trade chip from 18 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 On 8/1/2018 at 4:45 PM, StLunatic88 said: Oh Im looking toward his Free Agency in 2 years, not to trade for him. After we decline the $32m in options for Carp and Gyorko Might be premature, but I have already mentally punted on 2019, as we clearly cant commit to anything correctly, and just hope that we can get these young Pitchers/OFs ready for a couple big singings for 2020 to make a final run with Yadi We're probably still talking about money that the Cardinals probably aren't able to financially compete with teams like the Dodgers or Yankees. I mean, he's probably getting $25M+ on the open market assuming he doesn't re-sign. I'd love to have him, but I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 10 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Not attacking the idea, because I do like Stroman, but I think any time this is where you are thinking on a package for a player, your not even close to what it would really take. Kelly is another one that Mo waited to long to move. His value peaked as a prospect last year, and the minute they knew they were locking in Yadi for 3 more years, he should have been moved for something we could use. And if no right then, definitely as soon as Knizner tore it up in the AFL. I don't think the Blue Jays have any real desire to move Stroman, and if they were I'd think they'd want a TON to move him. I just don't see the Cardinals meeting that asking price for the Blue Jays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 7 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I still think Kelly has a bright future as well, and I wish it was with the Cardinals, but Yadi wont play 1st so thats out of the question. We arent going to wait for Kelly's first year of Arbitration before hes even a starter. My point is that his Trade Value was never higher than last year. He was the best Catching prospect in baseball in most peoples eyes. He has now lost that perceived value. He is still a good chip, and could be a corner stone for another franchise. But there is no arguing than he holds less value as a trade chip from 18 months ago. He was probably 2nd behind Mejia, although I think it's closer than rams and others said it was. As for Carson Kelly, I think those that liked him before still like him and those that didn't will use his brief stint in the majors against him. In 118 PA, he's accumulated -0.9 WAR and 10 wRC+. In Yadi's first season (151 PA), he was worth 0.4 WAR and 77 wRC+. He needs to be playing everyday, whether it be with the Cardinals or somewhere else. The Cardinals will probably have to make a decision this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 12 hours ago, holt_bruce81 said: I know this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but I mentioned it around this time last year and might feel even stronger about it this year....I think the Cardinals should trade for Marcus Stroman in the offseason. And I know FA Signings haven't really worked out alll that well in the past, but I'd go after Josh Donaldson on a 2-3 year deal. What happens with Cecil and Fowler? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holt_bruce81 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I know It’s been a small sample size, but Mike Shildt has injected a little bit of life into this franchise. Love the aggressiveness on the bases and the Bullpen management. Big series coming up against Pittsburgh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 When did the Brewers thread catch up to ours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: When did the Brewers thread catch up to ours? When they became relevant to the pennant chase? OWWWWwwwwww....that was rude. Funny (on a smaller scale) but rude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 Just now, Leader said: When they became relevant to the pennant chase? OWWWWwwwwww....that was rude. Funny (on a smaller scale) but rude When the Brewers win a World Series, we can talk about them being relevant. I'm talking to you at @ramssuperbowl99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Just now, CWood21 said: When the Brewers win a World Series, we can talk about them being relevant. @ramssuperbowl99 This is true. No denying that. Good come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, CWood21 said: When the Brewers win a World Series, we can talk about them being relevant. I'm talking to you at @ramssuperbowl99. Hey man I'm just here to thank @holt_bruce81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted August 3, 2018 Author Share Posted August 3, 2018 1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Hey man I'm just here to thank @holt_bruce81 holt had only one thing to do...and he couldn't even do that right. Now we're stuck with Bud Norris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, CWood21 said: We're probably still talking about money that the Cardinals probably aren't able to financially compete with teams like the Dodgers or Yankees. I mean, he's probably getting $25M+ on the open market assuming he doesn't re-sign. I'd love to have him, but I'm not holding my breath. Teams like the Dodgers or Yankees or Cubs will always outspend us as a team, but they should never be able to outspend us for a singular player. As he is a California kid, maybe that pull is too strong, but Dollars should never be the limiting factor for the Cardinals for any single player if we truly want them. We have a growing payroll with the new TV contract, and we should be shedding big/bad contracts pretty soon ($40m from Wainwright, Holland, Norris this year, $40m from Gregerson, Carpenter, Gyorko, Mikolas next year, and $38m from Molina, Wong and Cecil the year after that. And unfortunately still another $16.5m to Fowler for 2021). Im aware that we arent the favorites for Arenado, but we would have just shed at least $80m going to that offseason (with only possibly paying Ozuna) So we should have no problem paying him $25m+ per year if he wants to come here. Edited August 3, 2018 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 14 hours ago, CWood21 said: I don't think the Blue Jays have any real desire to move Stroman, and if they were I'd think they'd want a TON to move him. I just don't see the Cardinals meeting that asking price for the Blue Jays. Agreed, I don't think they wanna deal him right now. He's coming off a disastrous/injury riddled year, so his value currently isn't what it was. I mean, he's been a negative WAR player in half a pitching season. That's how bad his year has gone. They still control him for 2 more years, so I think if they did move him it would be next year at the deadline or that offseason. Hoping he's back to form... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgarrett12486 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: Teams like the Dodgers or Yankees or Cubs will always outspend us as a team, but they should never be able to outspend us for a singular player. As he is a California kid, maybe that pull is too strong, but Dollars should never be the limiting factor for the Cardinals for any single player if we truly want them. We have a growing payroll with the new TV contract, and we should be shedding big/bad contracts pretty soon ($40m from Wainwright, Holland, Norris this year, $40m from Gregerson, Carpenter, Gyorko, Mikolas next year, and $38m from Molina, Wong and Cecil the year after that. And unfortunately still another $16.5m to Fowler for 2021). Im aware that we arent the favorites for Arenado, but we would have just shed at least $80m going to that offseason (with only possibly paying Ozuna) So we should have no problem paying him $25m+ per year if he wants to come here. No doubt, we're not limited to being outbid by anyone for a single player. We could match any offer. As you eluded to, we aren't going to carry a NYY or LAD payroll as a team, but we theoretically could match any superstar contract and make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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