stl4life07 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Ramsey got traded for a 3rd round pick and a backup tight end. We know Ramsey is a top 3 corner so no way his value is this. Waller just got traded for a 3rd round pick. Waller is one of the top tight ends in the NFL. Definitely one of the most talented tight ends in the NFL. Go back to last season when Cooper got traded for a 5th round pick. Another talented receiver in the NFL. Was a huge reason for the development of Dak and you can say is a big reason Dak got paid. I just want to know to us fans over value players when it comes to trades or do we just think organizations just settle for value less than just to move them? Like we know certain organizations don’t know what they are doing so they get fleeced. But at the same time we know some great organizations who know what they are doing still get less value for talent and great players that have us fans questioning why couldn’t they get more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 The Rams got fleeced 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I think that there is a lot that goes into trades, particularly money / contract, that fans tend to ignore. The first or second post I made about the Ramsey trade was whether Miami reworked the money and soon after it was found out that they guaranteed the next two years. I also don't doubt that Ramsey is the type that would make a stink being sent somewhere that he doesn't want to go, so they probably needed to send him to a preferred location. Cooper was supposed to be cut before they doubled back and traded him. The moment the league knew he was getting cut, that pretty much torched real trade value. Though calling Waller a "top tight end" is a little bit of a reach right now. That was probably fair compensation for him. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: The Rams got fleeced Yes they did lol. But did the Raiders get fleeced? I heard the Packers offered a 2nd for Waller last season but the Raiders turned it down. Now they get a 3rd from the Giants for him. Shaq Mason gets traded for a 6th round pick. Do you think he is more valuable than a 6th? Again do us fans place more value on players than they really have? Obviously we know fleece does happen but sometimes we can say a team overpaid for a player and we could be wrong. We can also say a team didn’t get enough for a player and we could still be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnguy2015 Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) It's a combination of lot of these trades being really just salary dumps/cap space clearing and teams overvaluing draft picks, in my opinion. Edited March 14, 2023 by jonnguy2015 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 2 minutes ago, stl4life07 said: Yes they did lol. But did the Raiders get fleeced? I heard the Packers offered a 2nd for Waller last season but the Raiders turned it down. Now they get a 3rd from the Giants for him. LV fleeced themselves by not taking a second before the trade deadline. 2 minutes ago, stl4life07 said: Shaq Mason gets traded for a 6th round pick. Do you think he is more valuable than a 6th? Yes but he was going to be a cap casualty, so the trade value tanked. 2 minutes ago, stl4life07 said: Again do us fans place more value on players than they really have? Obviously we know fleece does happen but sometimes we can say a team overpaid for a player and we could be wrong. We can also say a team didn’t get enough for a player and we could still be wrong. Overly generalized statement. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That’s it, nothing really to overthink. Did fans place more value on the player when the Patriots traded a second round pick for Mohamed Sanu? It happens both ways, frequently. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, Forge said: I think that there is a lot that goes into trades, particularly money / contract, that fans tend to ignore. The first or second post I made about the Ramsey trade was whether Miami reworked the money and soon after it was found out that they guaranteed the next two years. I also don't doubt that Ramsey is the type that would make a stink being sent somewhere that he doesn't want to go, so they probably needed to send him to a preferred location. Cooper was supposed to be cut before they doubled back and traded him. The moment the league knew he was getting cut, that pretty much torched real trade value. Though calling Waller a "top tight end" is a little bit of a reach right now. That was probably fair compensation for him. That’s another thing with players getting cut. We look at a name and we think a team should get something for that player bc he has been good if not at worst solid but then that team gets nothing and ends up cutting him. I think like you said with Cooper if teams know you are going to cut the player they might not give up any assets. At the same time a team should give up something bc they shouldn’t want a bidding war or for that player to now be free and say I want to go to x team and turn the other team down. Just stuff like that. So why not just give a 6th round pick for a player rather than let him get cut and not choose that team so they miss out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jonnguy2015 said: It's a combination of lot of these trades being really just salary dumps/cap space clearing and teams overvaluing draft picks, in my opinion. That’s true too bc with the Ramsey trade I was listening to 11 personnel podcast and Jourdan Rodriguez said every team in the league knew the Rams weren’t going to give Ramsey a deal and was trying to clear their books. Plus they wanted to send Ramsey to an AFC team. So that limited the amount of suitors which also limited how great the compensation would be. I also just heard the people within the Rams organization is doing cartwheels now that Ramsey is gone bc he was being a bad influence on the young players in the locker room. That explains why the Rams never mentioned him as core players to build around moving forward. It has always been Stafford, Kupp, and Donald. But yeah all that you mentioned factors in to trades and what the team gives up and gets back. Edited March 14, 2023 by stl4life07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stl4life07 Posted March 14, 2023 Author Share Posted March 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: LV fleeced themselves by not taking a second before the trade deadline. Yes but he was going to be a cap casualty, so the trade value tanked. Overly generalized statement. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. That’s it, nothing really to overthink. Did fans place more value on the player when the Patriots traded a second round pick for Mohamed Sanu? It happens both ways, frequently. Didn’t the Pats go get Sanu to try and appease Brady? Like he looked around and saw he really didn’t have much to work with and we heard rumblings he might be leaving so the Pats out of desperation went and got Sanu. And we know you never supposed to make moves out of desperation. Maybe strategically like I think the Broncos did with signing Stidham to make Vegas overpay for Jimmy G. But yeah like how many people loved that the Pats got Sanu? Not thinking about giving up a 2nd but just loved that Sanu was with Brady and thought he would make a big difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Just now, stl4life07 said: Didn’t the Pats go get Sanu to try and appease Brady? There’s nothing out there that supports this. The receiving corps that year was very injured and very bad, yes. Sanu joined and didn’t make it any less bad or any less injured. But that’s like saying the Raiders just signed Jakobi Meyers because they’re trying to appease Jimmy Garroppolo. It was a bad trade, where they had to overbid because they lost out on Sanders to SF. Like I said, players get over and under bid for all the time. I don’t think there’s any revelation to be had, just happens both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamq Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 It's all about 1. Money and 2. Leverage. If the buying team knows you will be cutting the guy (Cooper, Mason this year) the value is next to nothing. Sure the Raiders could have gotten a 2 last year, but it isn't last year anymore. Yesterday's price is rarely today's price, good and bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Also we are not in a free market where buying teams can spend tons of money. How many teams have the cap for Ramsey Teams also probably think in terms of where they are in their build too. By the time the cards can compete Ramsey would be on a steep decline. The 9ers or the seahawks want the player bit have other needs and constraints and then the Rams wouldn't trade him there anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Most fans overvalue players who have scored fantasy points in the somewhat recent past and undervalue everyone else. Here is somewhat better, but people still very much underrate projection and contracts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typecast Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) Just to add some other players, consider Non-exclusive franchise tagged players, requiring 2 FRPs to sign to an offer sheet but were sign-and-traded instead Davante Adams - Traded in the spring of 2022 for a 2022 1st and a 2022 2nd Yannick Ngakoue - Traded in the summer of 2020 for a 2021 2nd and a 2022 conditional 5th Jadeveon Clowney - Traded in the summer of 2019 for a 2020 3rd, Mingo, and Jacob Martin. Frank Clark - Traded in the spring of 2019 and a 2019 3rd round pick for a 2019 1st, 2019 3rd, and 2020 2nd. Dee Ford - Traded in the spring of 2019 for a 2020 2nd. Jarvis Landry - Traded in the spring of 2018 for a 2018 4th and 2019 7th. Edited March 14, 2023 by typecast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 hours ago, stl4life07 said: Ramsey got traded for a 3rd round pick and a backup tight end. We know Ramsey is a top 3 corner so no way his value is this. Dolphins guaranteed 2(?) full years of his contract, which is why his price went lower in terms of value. There's more to these trades than just the picks these teams get back. They are offloading contracts to get cap space, so if another team agrees to take on that contract, the team selling the player will lower the price as compensation. It's just that nobody pays attention to that stuff and all they see if "Jalen Ramsey traded for a 3rd round pick" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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