Would it be fair to say that Eli Manning has been below average for 75% of his career?

[sp6488]

15 hours ago, Darth Pees said:

Depends on the context, tbh. I think Eli and Flacco are two exceptions to the general rule that average QB's don't last a decade for one single team. The only reason they lasted was because of Superbowl wins. FWIW, Eli has pretty much always been better than Flacco.

I dont know.  I think peolpe underestimate how hard it is to be and remain an "average" NFL QB for an extended period of time.

Do you remember our SB season in 2012 when posters were talking about how much they would give to be the Redskins with RG3 rather than what we had?  How did that end up?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

19 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

I dont know.  I think peolpe underestimate how hard it is to be and remain an "average" NFL QB for an extended period of time.

Do you remember our SB season in 2012 when posters were talking about how much they would give to be the Redskins with RG3 rather than what we had?  How did that end up?

I mean, yeah in hindsight it's better off we didn't get RG3, but I also remember in 2012 people talking about wanting Alex Smith, and tbh I would much rather have him than Flacco.

[sp6488]

36 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

I mean, yeah in hindsight it's better off we didn't get RG3, but I also remember in 2012 people talking about wanting Alex Smith, and tbh I would much rather have him than Flacco.

In 2012 Alex Smith had a good season (only taking ~20 attempts per game) but was benched in favor of Kaepernick.

Not sure he's a great argument against Flacco here (w/r/t the difficulty of being at least average for a sustained period of time).

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

14 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

In 2012 Alex Smith had a good season (only taking ~20 attempts per game) but was benched in favor of Kaepernick.

Not sure he's a great argument against Flacco here (w/r/t the difficulty of being at least average for a sustained period of time).

I think it comes down to what kind of team could we have fielded the past several years if we would've signed Alex Smith to a FA contract and let Flacco walk rather than giving Flacco his record deal based on 5 games.

[sp6488]

19 minutes ago, Darth Pees said:

I think it comes down to what kind of team could we have fielded the past several years if we would've signed Alex Smith to a FA contract and let Flacco walk rather than giving Flacco his record deal based on 5 games.

Not significantly different of a team. 

Smith's cap hits by year (current deal):

2014 - $4.6MM

2015 - $15.6MM

2016 - $17.8MM

2017 - $16.9MM

2018 - $20.6MM

Over that period, maybe we could have signed/retained one additional mid-level FA based on the difference in cap hit?

As a rookie, he was signed to a 6-year, $49.5MM deal (2005); he signed a $24MM/3yr deal following the 2011 season to stay with the 49ers.  That deal was on the heels of his best season to date in which he threw for 3,100 yards, the first time in his career he had thrown for more than 3,000 yards (coming in his 6th season).

I don't think a team building argument with Alex Smith is a particularly good one, personally.

[ViperVisor]

Where are the Flacco numbers? You are looking at a contract that ends in 2018 vs one that goes for 3 more years. The difference 2013-2017 has been more than one additional mid-level FA

It was an obvious way over-pay contract that was going to be a sink-hole come 2016 so they polished the turd by making it go to 2021.

In retrospect trading for Smith in 2013 would of been better even if the FA signing elsewhere flopped.

2013-now 22 QBs have thrown 1500+ passes. Flacco is better than Blake Bortles. That is all. 1 guy.

You toss a couple jabs at Alex Smith's career back then, easy to do.

But this fact is a fact.

Alex Smith's rating in 2009+2010 is the same as Flacco the past 5 years.

[Dashing202]

Eli Manning career is that he been a good qb that people always give him a hard time.

[lancerman]

28 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

Eli Manning career is that he been a good qb that people always give him a hard time.

What? He's been a QB that has led the league in INT 3 times. He's been a QB that only once in his career had a passer rating that ranked in the top ten of that season and it was seven so he wasn't even top 5, in 9 seasons he ranked at or outside the top 15 (and there were years where he was sub 20 or even in the 30's). Aside from this year when he got pulled and his first year where he only started 7 games he's always had double digit interceptions. He averages below a 60% completion percentage. 

He's actually been a very average to mediocre QB who thanks to two Super Bowl runs gets a lot more praise and consideration than he would otherwise. 

[Dashing202]

3 minutes ago, lancerman said:

What? He's been a QB that has led the league in INT 3 times. He's been a QB that only once in his career had a passer rating that ranked in the top ten of that season and it was seven so he wasn't even top 5, in 9 seasons he ranked at or outside the top 15 (and there were years where he was sub 20 or even in the 30's). Aside from this year when he got pulled and his first year where he only started 7 games he's always had double digit interceptions. He averages below a 60% completion percentage. 

He's actually been a very average to mediocre QB who thanks to two Super Bowl runs gets a lot more praise and consideration than he would otherwise. 

Lol he got the job done and that's all it matters 

[lancerman]

4 minutes ago, Dashing202 said:

Lol he got the job done and that's all it matters 

Yeah in two seasons only and one of those was more on the defense but that's neither here nor there. . That doesn't negate that the "hard time"  people gave him was completely justified because for most of his career he was average to mediocre at best. It's literally the opposite of a good QB who people gave a hard time. It's a middling QB who got a pass for two runs.

[Dashing202]

7 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Yeah in two seasons only and one of those was more on the defense but that's neither here nor there. . That doesn't negate that the "hard time"  people gave him was completely justified because for most of his career he was average to mediocre at best. It's literally the opposite of a good QB who people gave a hard time. It's a middling QB who got a pass for two runs.

He isn't bad dude lol come on... he's had good moments and bad moments .

Teams like the jets and browns would of loved him 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

5 hours ago, sp6488 said:

Not significantly different of a team. 

Smith's cap hits by year (current deal):

2014 - $4.6MM

2015 - $15.6MM

2016 - $17.8MM

2017 - $16.9MM

2018 - $20.6MM

Over that period, maybe we could have signed/retained one additional mid-level FA based on the difference in cap hit?

As a rookie, he was signed to a 6-year, $49.5MM deal (2005); he signed a $24MM/3yr deal following the 2011 season to stay with the 49ers.  That deal was on the heels of his best season to date in which he threw for 3,100 yards, the first time in his career he had thrown for more than 3,000 yards (coming in his 6th season).

I don't think a team building argument with Alex Smith is a particularly good one, personally.

vs. what we did in building a team around Joe Flacco's $100 million contract only to ignore all skill positions? Regardless, I think signing Smith in 2012, provided hindsight is always 20/20, would've allowed us to maneuver FA more aggressively, retain guys like Anquan Boldin, adjust our scheme so that it's not entirely dependent on the OL, and save money in the process. All while getting a player who is objectively better than Flacco.

[Ryan_W]

he doesn't pad his stats

I think his teammates like him, and that can win games