2023 Commanders OTAs, Minicamp & Training Camp

[Scott Land]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:03 PM, Slappy Mc said:

Show any proof that either player can achieve 10 sacks in a season. I'll wait. 

The point isn't that "oh man how could he not show up" as much as it's a players inability to humble himself to the understanding he NEEDS the voluntary camp as much as anyone else. All three absent players should be there. Is it a death knell that they aren't present? No. Does it send a bad message to your boss if you aren't showing commitment and dedication to someone who is unsure if you are worth keeping around? Absolutely. 

Not sure where the "show proof either player can achieve 10 sacks in a season" comes from since I was literally asking the question that if they show up are they going to get 10 sacks? I've said multiple times I wish they were there and I think they should be there. But they aren't.

[Scott Land]

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

1) You don't have to try to educate me on the human body. I know what is involved in the injuries, and the rehab.

2) As for comparing it to Chase, I'm doing it because it shows him up. And it shows that the "he might get reinjured" excuse is just that...an excuse. Mathis was injured less than 12 months ago. Chase was injured 1.5 years ago. The possibility for a reinjury is higher for Mathis now than it is for Chase. And yet, Mathis is there. Chase isn't. Leaders put in the sweat equity. They don't just talk a good game.

You see people get injured during this time every single year. It's not an excuse, it's a fact. "Shows him up" ya there is a ton people talking about how Phil Mathis is showing up Chase Young by showing up after a torn meniscus in week 1. Especially since he's only in his 2nd year and played 1 game. I think it's a little more likely that a ACL/Patellar tendon tear is more likely to get reinjured than a meniscus, especially since one is a year recovery and one is a 3 month recovery, but hey, I'm no doctor. 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

3) ah, there's the "It's voluntary workouts" I was expecting. I can play OTA bingo with  "voluntary workouts" and "he might get injured" or "It's a contract year" and "he gotta get his bag"

They made a "business decision" by not giving him his 5th year, so why is he also not allowed to make a business decision? 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

Additionally, most are not on their rookie deal when they are sitting out these workouts.

Now don't get this twisted, because I'm not comparing the 2 here, just providing a very recent example to counter, Terry literally it last year. 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

The organization didn't pick up the 5th year. So sitting "because it's a contract year" only hurts him.

Do I agree with how both him and montez are handling this? No. Do I understand it? Yes. This year is huge for both of those 2 and it's more than likely that one of them (potentially both) aren't back next year. So for the argument against Chase that he's not doing a good job of making the front office want to pay him, maybe he doesn't care? He knows if he plays well he's going to get paid by someone and maybe he doesn't want to be here anymore? So why does he care what this front office thinks of him because maybe he wants out? Or maybe he knows this front office will hopefully be gone with the new owners, and he doesn't care what this regime thinks anymore. Or maybe he still hasn't learned and will come in and won't be any good. Time will tell. 

 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

We missed the playoffs. This isn't a playoff team. We were 8-9. Everyone who is not currently rehabbing should be on that field because of that. And the ones rehabbing should be doing what they are supposed to do by the team doctors/trainers. If this were Patrick Mahomes missing an OTA, I'd still prefer him to be there. But he's "got enough chips at the table" (my poker reference) that shields him from any criticism for missing those team activities. But this is a guy who has 9 sacks in 3 seasons and most were from his rookie season 3 years ago. He hasn't done squat since then. Want to change the mind(s) of me and others? Show up when you're not required to. Do more than the bare minimum

Well 8-8-1 actually. But I've literally said I WISH THEY WERE THERE! I think they SHOULD be there. They should be out there trying to get better, trying to get everyone on the same page, but everyone talks about how the NFL is a business when it comes to the front offices trading, paying, not paying, etc. It's a business for the players too. 

On 5/24/2023 at 5:31 PM, Thaiphoon said:

Better yet, you're right. Team workouts aren't effective ways to get ready for a season. Let's just change it to every player can do what they want and then just report 5 days before Week 1. Sound ridiculous? You bet it does. And why does it sound ridiculous? Because you know deep down that players need to be present with the coaches AND their teammates during these activities. The more you miss, the more you miss. I mean for Chase, he's a grown man and no one can force him to be there. I just don't want to hear a word from him or his fanbois about how the organization did him wrong or that he's not considered a leader on the team. Leaders show up. 

LOL. I like how you say "report 5 days before" like that's what I'm implying. We're 4 months away from regular season football. I'll just never understand this fan base. The national media calls Chase Young a generational pass rusher (which he had that ceiling at the time) and he underperforms to those standards through 3 years and this fan base just can't stand him because of it. He had a good year, got too big headed, underperformed, then got hurt and now everyone turns their back on him and think he's worthless. I can guarantee you every single fanbase would love to have Chase Young on their team. But no, we have been so good in the last 25 years that we don't need someone with his potential, don't need him. Get rid of him. Yep! You've changed my mind. Don't want him anymore! Lets just release him now like the Cardinals did with DHOP. We don't even need to get any picks for him. Not worth anything anyways. 

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

He got hurt and had 7 leg surgeries and then was a spot starter for 8 games. He is Wes Schweitzer. He should not be guaranteed a starting spot. It’s absurd. He’s not Alex Mack. Come on now. 

I don't think he's “guaranteed” to be the starter. If Stromberg practices better in training camp & plays better in preseason - like I hope he does - then hopefully he'll start over Gates.

Also, Wes S was solid when he played guard. If we get serviceable play out of Gates or slightly better then that's good. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by turtle28

[taylor made]

I remember when Chase Young didn't participate in the combine. I remember when it wasn't a big deal. At this point, I'm just not surprised. 

[turtle28]

Damn, I just hope Chase has a good year, I’m so effin tired of these damn conversations!

Edited May 27, 2023 by turtle28

[turtle28]

Commanders RB drills 

[ripsean21]

16 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Damn, I just hope Chase has a good year, I’m so effin tired of these damn conversations!

I was about to say we all want the best from Chase but even his biggest supporters IE me and you I’d say are both like put up or shut up like be great or don’t the talking about it sucks

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I was about to say we all want the best from Chase but even his biggest supporters IE me and you I’d say are both like put up or shut up like be great or don’t the talking about it sucks

Definitely & I 100% wish & think he, Leno, and Sweat should be at OTAs but, just bc they’re not does not mean they aren't going to have good seasons. That's all TBD.

[ARTMONK HOF]

Tariq Castro-Fields

Cameron Dantzler

Very curious to see how these guys will do and if they will make the team. 

[turtle28]

28 minutes ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

Tariq Castro-Fields

Cameron Dantzler

Very curious to see how these guys will do and if they will make the team. 

I think if Dantzler doesn't make the team it's a very bad sign for him I’m interested to see what TCF can offer us as well. He was pretty solid at Penn State, certainly good enough to develop into a top backup CB. There’s a reason why TFC is still here & Wildgoose is gone. I think there's a good chance TFC is our 5th CB or better.

Edited May 27, 2023 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

On 5/26/2023 at 6:02 PM, Scott Land said:

You see people get injured during this time every single year. It's not an excuse, it's a fact.  

Did Payne get injured last OTAs? No. But wait...he was in a contract year. He didn't get injured. Know why? For the "voluntary" portion he showed up and was in the meeting/class rooms but didn't partake of the physical portion. Much like Curl is doing now. That's "protecting yourself against injury" but being with your team and takin an interest in getting better at your chosen profession. A chosen profession that you haven't performed but 3 weeks in the past 1.5 years and the 9 weeks prior to that injury you weren't good at it.

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"Shows him up" ya there is a ton people talking about how Phil Mathis is showing up Chase Young by showing up after a torn meniscus in week 1. Especially since he's only in his 2nd year and played 1 game. I think it's a little more likely that a ACL/Patellar tendon tear is more likely to get reinjured than a meniscus, especially since one is a year recovery and one is a 3 month recovery, but hey, I'm no doctor.

Yes. Because Mathis is there. Chase isn't. Lots of ACL tears never get reinjured. But going further, you and others keep complaining about Rogers getting injured while running (his achilles) as a reason for Chase not to be there. Refresh my mind, was Rogers injured last year? Was this a "reinjury"? No. Which means that injuries can happen at any time. And as such, it could happen to Chase at his home. So the only way to prevent a player from getting injured is to put them in a bubble until 5 days before Week 1. The "reinjury" excuse is just that. So is the using the "he could get injured at OTAs" excuse

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They made a "business decision" by not giving him his 5th year, so why is he also not allowed to make a business decision? 

And got flamed by you and others for not giving him that 5th year. Why are you and others allowed to flame the team for that business decision and we aren't allowed to flame Chase for his?

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Do I agree with how both him and montez are handling this? No. Do I understand it? Yes. This year is huge for both of those 2 and it's more than likely that one of them (potentially both) aren't back next year. So for the argument against Chase that he's not doing a good job of making the front office want to pay him, maybe he doesn't care? He knows if he plays well he's going to get paid by someone and maybe he doesn't want to be here anymore? So why does he care what this front office thinks of him because maybe he wants out? Or maybe he knows this front office will hopefully be gone with the new owners, and he doesn't care what this regime thinks anymore. Or maybe he still hasn't learned and will come in and won't be any good. Time will tell. 

Yes, time will tell. But unless he goes out and goes all HAM, he's gonna want to at least be in the non-mandatory OTAs. Other teams watch and converse with the coaches and when a player gets a reputation that is hard to get rid of. And if he only shows up for mandatory and has a year like 2021 or even has a decent year, he's still not gonna get the bag he wanted to get if he only did the bare minimum. Like I said, coaches talk. So do GMs. But my guess is this is another 2021. Past is prologue and until he shows me otherwise, I'm going to assume this is 2021 all over again.

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Well 8-8-1 actually.

Sorry, that tie felt like a loss. Mea Culpa

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But I've literally said I WISH THEY WERE THERE! I think they SHOULD be there. They should be out there trying to get better, trying to get everyone on the same page, but everyone talks about how the NFL is a business when it comes to the front offices trading, paying, not paying, etc. It's a business for the players too. 

Here we don't disagree my friend.

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LOL. I like how you say "report 5 days before" like that's what I'm implying.

Just being a bit hyperbolic. See my comment above about bubble wrap, which is also a bit hyperbolic but "demonstrates absurdity by being absurd".

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We're 4 months away from regular season football. I'll just never understand this fan base. The national media calls Chase Young a generational pass rusher (which he had that ceiling at the time) and he underperforms to those standards through 3 years and this fan base just can't stand him because of it. He had a good year, got too big headed, underperformed, then got hurt and now everyone turns their back on him and think he's worthless.

The bolded is where we 110% agree. The problem is that his head is still too big IMHO (and those of others taking him to task)

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I can guarantee you every single fanbase would love to have Chase Young on their team. 

Cool. And as Danny from Grant & Danny said, I'll see him in another uniform next season.

https://www.audacy.com/thefandc/sports/washington-commanders/danny-rouhier-absolutely-goes-off-on-chase-young

“LOSER! Go to football practice and try to be better at football! What you’ve done in the past doesn’t work, massive zilch – I can’t believe ANYBODY is okay with this for a microsecond! If you don’t, you better wreck shop and be unstoppable at an All-Pro level! Oh, what’s that? James Smith Hyphen has been better than your a**! Scrap Heap Steve has outperformed thee! Try to get better at football all the time until you’re great, then take some time off. If you’re a Chief, rest up; nothing but greatness in that rear-view mirror – but I’ll bet you a lot of those guys post, and you know why? Culture.”

"Show up, the way 90 people did, figure it, grow up, or don’t – better yet, don’t. Keep going your way, and I’ll see you in a different jersey next year. Enjoy it! It’s voluntary? Volunteer to attend, and get better at football, which you’ve been terrible at for two years. You’ve produced NOTHING. Everybody has it figured out, except for you, specifically after being called out for this behavior two years ago. Does Ron Rivera have any other buddies who can pen a column for the team website about how you grow up? How can it be more important to me, than it is to you and your career? Now is the time when you demonstrate this is a turn the page moment, a crossroad, and you elected to do it on your own, selfishly. Good luck to you. I can’t wait to see you in a different uniform next year.”

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But no, we have been so good in the last 25 years that we don't need someone with his potential, don't need him. Get rid of him.

Conversely, he hasn't really changed our fortunes, now has he? 

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Yep! You've changed my mind. Don't want him anymore! Lets just release him now like the Cardinals did nwith DHOP. We don't even need to get any picks for him. Not worth anything anyways. 

Nah, let's not release him. Let's trade him. Or we build his value and trade him to a DE hungry team that has playoff aspirations in October and has been wrecked by injury.

 

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I'll never understand this fanbase

Yes, I'll never understand part of this fanbase either. The part that keeps making excuses for mediocrity. 

[ripsean21]

7 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Definitely & I 100% wish & think he, Leno, and Sweat should be at OTAs but, just bc they’re not does not mean they aren't going to have good seasons. That's all TBD.

I agree. And I would be there if it were me but it’s on him. He has missed things and if he balls out it’s not an issue. If he doesn’t then the May sayers will just say they saw the signs early and maybe at that point I’d say maybe they’re right. Being in great shape has nothing to do with movement skills and he’s def huge but huge doesn’t mean sacks. TFL’s sacks and just flash. If Chase loves the game and cares and honestly if he can actually still play effectively we’re gonna see soon enough he’s a grown man by life standards. I personally want to see it because I know it’s inside of him to be great. Can we get lucky after a rough start and get that guy I’d love love love too see it.

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, ripsean21 said:

I agree. And I would be there if it were me but it’s on him. He has missed things and if he balls out it’s not an issue. If he doesn’t then the May sayers will just say they saw the signs early and maybe at that point I’d say maybe they’re right. Being in great shape has nothing to do with movement skills and he’s def huge but huge doesn’t mean sacks. TFL’s sacks and just flash. If Chase loves the game and cares and honestly if he can actually still play effectively we’re gonna see soon enough he’s a grown man by life standards. I personally want to see it because I know it’s inside of him to be great. Can we get lucky after a rough start and get that guy I’d love love love to see it.

Now Curl needs to be paid. With foresight. This guy is actually about to pop on an all pro year and you don’t want to pay off that and then potentially lose him for him being closer and wanting to test maybe. I don’t want to get to the franchise game even though his position tag would be favorable comp to any position. But that’s where the edges come back front and center. That’s why I believe it’s critical for this team overall moving forward to get this done now and then next year it’s truely about getting creative for moving forward and tough decisions to come

[turtle28]

What the hell is Grant or Danny’s overreacting as* yelling about?

Montez Sweat is not at OTAs

He lost me there. 
 

If I had to put $ on it, I think Chase outplays Montez this year as Montez has reached his potential & while he’s a good pass rusher, he’s not great or near elite. I’ve said it dozens of times now - Sweat hasn’t even proven to be as good as Orakpo or Kerrigan.

Chase on the flip side is 24 and has untapped potential, you invest in untapped potential more than a player like Tez who has reached their potential and likely not getting much better in his career or better at all.

I’d put money on this team finishing with 7 or 8 wins at most with Rivera, his front office and coaching staff being FIRED - except maybe Bienemy if he shows a lot of potential that Harris likes - and then Harris/Rales/Magic franchising or re-signing Chase to a long term deal.

At this point if it’s a decision of keeping a HC who tapped out as average his last 7 years vs a 24-year-old DE w/ upside to still be a consistent double digit sack guy who can make a handful of game change/splash plays a year as he did in 2020, I’m keeping Chase.

And, so I feel Harris/Rales/Magic will do the same just as Harris kept Embiid in Philly while firing Brett Brown.

Edited May 28, 2023 by turtle28

[turtle28]

13 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Now Curl needs to be paid. With foresight. This guy is actually about to pop on an all pro year and you don’t want to pay off that and then potentially lose him for him being closer and wanting to test maybe. I don’t want to get to the franchise game even though his position tag would be favorable comp to any position. But that’s where the edges come back front and center. That’s why I believe it’s critical for this team overall moving forward to get this done now and then next year it’s truely about getting creative for moving forward and tough decisions to come

I don’t think it’s that easy to give Curl top safety $. He’s a good player but, his best season was his rookie year. I can not have faith that he’s just going to “pop off and have an All-Pro year” bc while he was good/at times great as a rookie, he’s basically been above average/arguably good the last two years.

I know people don’t want to hear this but the fact that in the last two drafts they drafted Butler & Martin is not a good sign for the team giving Curl as long term deal that pays him the $80 mil or more his dad says he’s worth.

Kam has shown he’s worth getting a 2nd contract, he hasn’t shown he’s worth getting paid as one of the top safeties in the NFL.

I feel that unless they can get Curl to agree to a contract that pays him on avg $10 m per year or just above or below that they won’t re-sign him now & may lose him next off-season w/ Butler or Martin becoming the starting SS.

At this point - based off last year - DeFo is the safety that this needs to give the $15-20 mil per year contract to in a few years, not Curl.

Edited May 28, 2023 by turtle28