Love is in the air! Poll!!

[Hunter2_1]

9 hours ago, Norm said:

It's hard to be a GB fan in the gen lol

It looks hard to be a GB fan in the GB forum as well!

[Norm]

10 minutes ago, Hunter2_1 said:

It looks hard to be a GB fan in the GB forum as well!

IDK. It's pretty entertaining tbh

[ramssuperbowl99]

7 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

They've made the investments but the investments haven't had time to mature.

I don't think the investment they've made even outspends what they got back from the Adams trade.

[Mox]

1 minute ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I don't think the investment they've made even outspends what they got back from the Adams trade.

The past two years the Packers have definitely invested in skill positions.

2022: WR Christian Watson 2nd round, WR Romeo Doubs 4th round, WR Samari Toure 7th round 

2023: TE Luke Musgrave 2nd round, WR Jayden Reed 2nd round, TE Tucker Kraft 3rd round, WR Dontayvion Wicks 5th round, RB Lew Nichols 7th round, WR Grant Dubose 7th round

Depending on the value chart that's roughly the 30th pick and 11th pick the last two years invested into the position.

 

[CWood21]

On 10/31/2023 at 11:29 PM, Soko said:

What kind of season is Aaron Jones coming off of in 2022? How many had an offensive mind/HC as good as LaFleur? How many had an OL that ranked third in pass block win rate? 

Care to guess the percentage of offensive snaps that Aaron Jones has played this year?  24.31%.  Their best offensive player (by far) has played in less than a quarter of the offensive snaps this year.  Yeah, that seems logical to hold that against Love.

On 10/31/2023 at 11:29 PM, Soko said:

Talking about what Marvin Jones or Santana Moss used to do isn’t really all that relevant, IMO. They weren’t those PB level guys when the young QBs came in. Funny enough, Watson had a lot more hype after what he was doing with Rodgers as a rookie than what he’s doing with Love as a second year player in the same offense. Doubs too. Are they JAGs? Maybe. But no one was laughing at them as future burger flippers last year (although definitely underwhelming and not presently high quality). Contrary to what many around here were saying in the preseason, Love was never going to even be 2022 Rodgers. 

How often do veteran WRs run the wrong route?  Or give poor effort?  Probably not very often.  They're veterans for a reason.  That's the problem, the Packers currently lack a quality veteran on the roster.  Their most veteran player at WR or TE is Josiah Deguara who is in his 3rd year in the league. There's no "if nothing else, he's going to be open" safety net.  Add on Aaron Jones' lack of availability, and it's no wonder that Love has struggled the last few weeks.

 

[CWood21]

19 hours ago, StatKing said:

Just let him cope. Their entire football world is currently burning down all around them. They are finally facing the reality that maybe our front office isn't the best thing since sliced bread and the only reason we've had success is because we were lucky enough to have back to back top 10 QBs of all time.

I knew this season was going to be bad from the get go, just look how bad our offensive production dipped across the board last year when Rodgers wasn't playing at an MVP level.

Entire football world is burning down?  That's amusing.  But do continue to be obtuse to try and "prove" a point.

[CWood21]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I don't think the investment they've made even outspends what they got back from the Adams trade.

I mean, I don't think it was Gute's masterplan to have Jordan Love without Davante Adams.  Adams made it very clear he wasn't going to sign long-term with Green Bay, and he wanted to end up in Las Vegas with Carr.  Now, everyone has egg on their face.

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Care to guess the percentage of offensive snaps that Aaron Jones has played this year?  24.31%.  Their best offensive player (by far) has played in less than a quarter of the offensive snaps this year.  Yeah, that seems logical to hold that against Love.

Lol. Read the conversation. The other guy brought up Santana Moss, who also barely played in his season with RGIII. Either we can bring up the years they had prior to actually playing with the QB, or we can’t. Take it up with him, not me. 

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

How often do veteran WRs run the wrong route?  Or give poor effort?  Probably not very often.  They're veterans for a reason.  That's the problem, the Packers currently lack a quality veteran on the roster.  Their most veteran player at WR or TE is Josiah Deguara who is in his 3rd year in the league. There's no "if nothing else, he's going to be open" safety net.  Add on Aaron Jones' lack of availability, and it's no wonder that Love has struggled the last few weeks.

Cool. I don’t really care to get into any of that with you. 

I commented on the massive switch in tunes that occurred between now and last year. No, no one was touting this Packers group as a terribly strong group, but there were tons of “Rodgers regressed, Love will at least be at that level”. There was a lot more positive talk about Watson. More positive talk about Doubs. The line’s been banged up, but still manages to be near the top in PBWR. But now all of a sudden everyone else is awful and only Love isn’t. 

It’s always a fun contest to see who fans will throw under the bus in order to prop their guy. 

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Soko said:

Lol. Read the conversation. The other guy brought up Santana Moss, who also barely played in his season with RGIII. Either we can bring up the years they had prior to actually playing with the QB, or we can’t. Take it up with him, not me. 

Barely played?  He was 3rd on the team in targets.  I'd hardly call a player who finishes 3rd in targets as barely played.  Not to mention, he had Pierre Garcon who was a solid WR in his own right.  Also, guess who his OC was that year?  Kyle Shanahan.  Arguably the best coach in the league right now.  And correct me if I'm wrong, but there were 3 CURRENT head coaches (Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, and Mike McDaniel) on that offensive coaching staff aside from Kyle Shanahan.

7 minutes ago, Soko said:

Cool. I don’t really care to get into any of that with you. 

I commented on the massive switch in tunes that occurred between now and last year. No, no one was touting this Packers group as a terribly strong group, but there were tons of “Rodgers regressed, Love will at least be at that level”. There was a lot more positive talk about Watson. More positive talk about Doubs. The line’s been banged up, but still manages to be near the top in PBWR. But now all of a sudden everyone else is awful and only Love isn’t. 

It’s always a fun contest to see who fans will throw under the bus in order to prop their guy. 

Throw under the bus?  I don't think there's a SINGLE Packer fan who thinks anything on the offensive side of the ball is working.  From Jordan Love to his teammates to his coaching staff.  Legitimately speaking, the only player that I'd argue is grading out well is Zach Tom.  One out of 11 starters.  That's why this offense has been miserable.   This wasn't a team that was supposed to take the league by storm.  There was absolutely going to be growing pains involved.

[Soko]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Barely played?  He was 3rd on the team in targets.  I'd hardly call a player who finishes 3rd in targets as barely played.  Not to mention, he had Pierre Garcon who was a solid WR in his own right.  Also, guess who his OC was that year?  Kyle Shanahan.  Arguably the best coach in the league right now.  And correct me if I'm wrong, but there were 3 CURRENT head coaches (Sean McVay, Matt LaFleur, and Mike McDaniel) on that offensive coaching staff aside from Kyle Shanahan.

He played ~40% of snaps and had 1 start. Yeah, I’d call that barely played. 

And Love has one of the winningest coaches of all time (to start), multiple years of sitting behind a HOF QB (which, I was told, would be a massive advantage for him), and a line 3rd in PBWR. 

Hmmm, it’s almost like every situation is unique and trying to claim that “no one has succeeded in these circumstances” is an empty, substance-less comment? Because no situations are ever going to be identical, let alone remotely similar, thus making the comparative sample size effectively zero? Go figure. 

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Throw under the bus?  I don't think there's a SINGLE Packer fan who thinks anything on the offensive side of the ball is working.  From Jordan Love to his teammates to his coaching staff.  Legitimately speaking, the only player that I'd argue is grading out well is Zach Tom.  One out of 11 starters.  That's why this offense has been miserable.   This wasn't a team that was supposed to take the league by storm.  There was absolutely going to be growing pains involved.

We aren’t talking about the same thing. You’re trying to make my comments about just what’s happening right now, but they aren’t. They’re about what’s being said now vs what was being boasted about all offseason, and the poor attempts at trying to paint Love’s situation as bottomless because there haven’t been players successful in the same circumstances. If you want to talk to me about either of those, we can continue this. Otherwise, I have no interest or care to talk what you’re trying to talk about. Thanks.

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, Soko said:

He played ~40% of snaps and had 1 start. Yeah, I’d call that barely played. 

And Love has one of the winningest coaches of all time (to start), multiple years of sitting behind a HOF QB (which, I was told, would be a massive advantage for him), and a line 3rd in PBWR. 

Hmmm, it’s almost like every situation is unique and trying to claim that “no one has succeeded in these circumstances” is an empty, substance-less comment? Because no situations are ever going to be identical, let alone remotely similar, thus making the comparative sample size effectively zero? Go figure. 

Other than Josh Morgan, none of the WRs played in 60+% of the offensive snaps.  Leonard Hankerson came in 2nd at 55.47%, while Moss was 3rd with 43.95%.  It probably wasn't intentional that he played that much, but saying he barely played is laughable.  The top 2 WRs that year were Josh Morgan and Pierre Garcon, and Gascon missed 6 games with injury.  Guess who finished top 2 in targets that year?  Morgan and Garcon.

 

10 minutes ago, Soko said:

We aren’t talking about the same thing. You’re trying to make my comments about just what’s happening right now, but they aren’t. They’re about what’s being said now vs what was being boasted about all offseason, and the poor attempts at trying to paint Love’s situation as bottomless because there haven’t been players successful in the same circumstances. If you want to talk to me about either of those, we can continue this. Otherwise, I have no interest or care to talk what you’re trying to talk about. Thanks.

We are though.  It's not my problem if you can't see the forest through the trees.  A handful of posters in here have came in and decided that after SEVEN games, Jordan Love can't play.  They refuse to acknowledge that the OL has a whole has played poorly.  They've refused to acknowledge that Love's supporting cast (i.e. his receivers and TEs) haven't helped him, and he has (I believe) the 7th highest dropped pass rate in the league.  They refuse to acknowledge that the only veteran weapon the Packers have on offense has been limited to playing less than 25% of the possible offensive snaps.  They've refused to acknowledge that LaFleur's play calling has been ultra-conservative to the point where teams are begging Jordan Love to go vertical.  So far, Jordan Love has been good for 2 games and some change (Chicago, Atlanta, and Q4 against New Orleans) and he's been bad for 2 games and some change (Detroit, Las Vegas, and 1H Denver).  That's pretty much exactly what you'd anticipate a young player doing.  Some highs, some lows, and mostly in between.

Best case scenario this year, the Packers got Kirk Cousins-level (not peak Kirk Cousins mind you) of play out of Jordan Love and they win 9-10 games, maybe get a Wild Card spot, but get obliterated in the playoffs.  Worst case scenario, the Packers' offer struggles to gel and they're going to get there first top 10 pick since 2009.  And potentially their fist top 5 pick since 2006.

[Soko]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Other than Josh Morgan, none of the WRs played in 60+% of the offensive snaps.  Leonard Hankerson came in 2nd at 55.47%, while Moss was 3rd with 43.95%.  It probably wasn't intentional that he played that much, but saying he barely played is laughable.  The top 2 WRs that year were Josh Morgan and Pierre Garcon, and Gascon missed 6 games with injury.  Guess who finished top 2 in targets that year?  Morgan and Garcon.

~40% snaps, 1 start. Yup, I’ll continue to say barely played. Even if you want to say he played this exorbitant amount - was he the same guy that he used to be? Did he contribute the way he did in those “x4 1,000 yard seasons”? No. So, again, we either include what they used to do, or we don’t. Can’t have it both ways without trying to look silly. 

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

We are though.  It's not my problem if you can't see the forest through the trees.  A handful of posters in here have came in and decided that after SEVEN games, Jordan Love can't play.  They refuse to acknowledge that the OL has a whole has played poorly.  They've refused to acknowledge that Love's supporting cast (i.e. his receivers and TEs) haven't helped him, and he has (I believe) the 7th highest dropped pass rate in the league.  They refuse to acknowledge that the only veteran weapon the Packers have on offense has been limited to playing less than 25% of the possible offensive snaps.  They've refused to acknowledge that LaFleur's play calling has been ultra-conservative to the point where teams are begging Jordan Love to go vertical.  So far, Jordan Love has been good for 2 games and some change (Chicago, Atlanta, and Q4 against New Orleans) and he's been bad for 2 games and some change (Detroit, Las Vegas, and 1H Denver).  That's pretty much exactly what you'd anticipate a young player doing.  Some highs, some lows, and mostly in between.

Best case scenario this year, the Packers got Kirk Cousins-level (not peak Kirk Cousins mind you) of play out of Jordan Love and they win 9-10 games, maybe get a Wild Card spot, but get obliterated in the playoffs.  Worst case scenario, the Packers' offer struggles to gel and they're going to get there first top 10 pick since 2009.  And potentially their fist top 5 pick since 2006.

Lmao. I have a pretty good grasp on the words I’m using, thanks. I straight up said I’m not going to talk strictly about the current state of the Packers with you, and you still take that time to write all that. Thanks for the effort!

[malak1]

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I don't think it was Gute's masterplan to have Jordan Love without Davante Adams.  Adams made it very clear he wasn't going to sign long-term with Green Bay, and he wanted to end up in Las Vegas with Carr.  Now, everyone has egg on their face.

Didn't Adam's make that clear after they didn't offer him an extension the previous year? 

[Jameson_Neat]

2 hours ago, malak1 said:

Didn't Adam's make that clear after they didn't offer him an extension the previous year? 

I'm remembering two separate times they failed to come to an agreement. First time they denied his request for an early extension and the second being the one in which they started so low it pissed Adams off. 

Outside of that, GB really wanted him to stay. 

 

 

[ThatJerkDave]

6 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

It looks hard to be a GB fan in the GB forum as well!

We kind of have a different language, a lot of us have been around here and other places, together, for years.  I would say that most of the bickering is all in fun.  We get after each other pretty hard right after a game, and we are all buddies again by Wednesday.  The draft prospect fights are the best!