🔥 Pick #7 is in: Tyree Wilson, DL, Texas Tech

[Geezy]

regardless of how Wilson develops, im resigning Koonce. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

 

[Darbsk]

Thanks for posting that @NCOUGHMAN it's a bit deflating to watch sadly.

Be interested to hear your thoughts but what I saw:

• Not one pass rush move, no rip, no spin, no swim - just engage gently with both hands and slowly bullrush every play
• Tyree is obviously strong and powerful even when he doesn't use great leverage, he has a huge wingspan but never uses it, didn't jab with one arm or look to use the punch and rip move that Mack used to do with such great effect
• On run downs, I don't know if he may be being coached to almost '2 gap' as he is very, very passive in engaging with the tackle, he never jolts the guy back and is just stood there waiting to see what happens
• Even from a relatively low 4 point stance, he still stands upright very quickly rather than shooting forward like a Crosby or a Koonce
• Once his initial bull rush is absorbed by the tackle or guard he simply is done for the play, there's nothing else
• He seems very hesitant and even when unblocked doesn't seem to fully commit, no hands up to bat the ball, may be overthinking?
• I basically saw one decent bull rush part collapsing the pocket and one half decent pass rush inside when he arrows through between guard and tackle but ends up on the ground
• I didn't really see one dominant rep, nothing to get excited about at all, even the good bull rush the tackle absorbs 
• He plays way too high and that nullifies his terrific power
• He doesn't do anything with his hands at all and he has no violence in his hands
• It's almost like Tyree is waiting for the tackle to give him a chance, to make a slip or mistake when, to me, it's up to the pass rusher to create a chance, make the tackle over set or get turned or open the door, force the tackle to do something he doesn't want to

 

 

Edited August 13 by Darbsk

[Dessie]

52 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Thanks for posting that @NCOUGHMAN it's a bit deflating to watch sadly.

Be interested to hear your thoughts but what I saw:

• Not one pass rush move, no rip, no spin, no swim - just engage gently with both hands and slowly bullrush every play
• Tyree is obviously strong and powerful even when he doesn't use great leverage, he has a huge wingspan but never uses it, didn't jab with one arm or look to use the punch and rip move that Mack used to do with such great effect
• On run downs, I don't know if he may be being coached to almost '2 gap' as he is very, very passive in engaging with the tackle, he never jolts the guy back and is just stood there waiting to see what happens
• Even from a relatively low 4 point stance, he still stands upright very quickly rather than shooting forward like a Crosby or a Koonce
• Once his initial bull rush is absorbed by the tackle or guard he simply is done for the play, there's nothing else
• He seems very hesitant and even when unblocked doesn't seem to fully commit, no hands up to bat the ball, may be overthinking?
• I basically saw one decent bull rush part collapsing the pocket and one half decent pass rush inside when he arrows through between guard and tackle but ends up on the ground
• I didn't really see one dominant rep, nothing to get excited about at all, even the good bull rush the tackle absorbs 
• He plays way too high and that nullifies his terrific power
• He doesn't do anything with his hands at all and he has no violence in his hands
• It's almost like Tyree is waiting for the tackle to give him a chance, to make a slip or mistake when, to me, it's up to the pass rusher to create a chance, make the tackle over set or get turned or open the door, force the tackle to do something he doesn't want to

 

 

Unfortunately it’s hard to argue with any of this tbh. As you say pretty deflating to watch, I didn’t see anything that gives us hope.

No hands up to bat the ball was most concerning to me as it doesn’t look as if he has a feel for the game. A top 7 pick shouldn’t require this much coaching. 

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Dessie said:

Unfortunately it’s hard to argue with any of this tbh. As you say pretty deflating to watch, I didn’t see anything that gives us hope.

No hands up to bat the ball was most concerning to me as it doesn’t look as if he has a feel for the game. A top 7 pick shouldn’t require this much coaching. 

This. You don't draft raw as hell "traits" in the top 10. Not when they're that raw, the guy is injured, and wasn't utterly dominant at his position to begin with. 

Tyree Wilson was beyond raw, he wasn't healthy, and was a 7 sack per year "pass rusher" in the Big12 ffs. That's far from dominating as a pass rusher in a pass-heavy conference. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

This. You don't draft raw as hell "traits" in the top 10. Not when they're that raw, the guy is injured, and wasn't utterly dominant at his position to begin with. 

Tyree Wilson was beyond raw, he wasn't healthy, and was a 7 sack per year "pass rusher" in the Big12 ffs. That's far from dominating as a pass rusher in a pass-heavy conference. 

I got in an argument on here before the start of last season with someone who was trying to convince me Wilson was the next Miles Garrett.  I said the guy was delusional and Wilson was not in the same universe psychically or as a player that Garrett is.  It never surprises me how delusional some fans can be as there is nothing in Wilson's game that is close to anything Garrett does.  

I was in favor of Carter if we stayed put or trading back in the 1st for Porter Jr to aquire more picks and land a very good player at a position of need.    Both of those picks would have been far superior to Wilson who has underwhelmed thus far.  

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I got in an argument on here before the start of last season with someone who was trying to convince me Wilson was the next Miles Garrett.  I said the guy was delusional and Wilson was not in the same universe psychically or as a player that Garrett is.  It never surprises me how delusional some fans can be as there is nothing in Wilson's game that is close to anything Garrett does.  

I was in favor of Carter if we stayed put or trading back in the 1st for Porter Jr to aquire more picks and land a very good player at a position of need.    Both of those picks would have been far superior to Wilson who has underwhelmed thus far.  

I remember reading that, wasn't there some reference to TJ Watt too and athleticism if I recall.........maybe not.

I can only speak for myself of course, but taking any type of pass rusher (I'm talking 3-4 OLB or 43 DE rather than a 34 DE type guy) what I always want to see is explosion, violent hands and leverage, I also like to see a guy that just plays fast and aggressive as the rest can be learned, technique can be polished but he still has to have some idea of what to do with his hands. Maxx has all that and when he was coming out was almost too manic, lots of wasted energy but you knew he was just going balls to the wall and you could refine that. Our old coach used to say........you can tame a fire but you can't put the fire into someone and it kinda reminds me of Tyree.

Tyree is an amazing athletic specimen, tall, broad, long and immensely powerful. If you saw him at the pool you'd be like, wow, he should be an awesome football player! However, as an athlete, he's very linear and his high hips and lack of flexibility really limit what he can deliver. It doesn't look natural to him, he's quite robotic and whereas a guy like Maxx or TJ is a bundle of energy that you have to refine, Tyree just lumbers straight ahead like Frankenstein's monster.

I'm trying not to be too hard on the kid as he is young and he could dramatically improve, but as @Dessie says above, a kid with this limited skill set, average tape and lack of any real technique should never be drafted that high. I simply wouldn't be looking at his skill set and style unless I was wanting a long, run stopping 3-4 DE. Even at DT where he may have some success pass rushing he's still to high as of now and unable to use his power against lower centre of gravity guards. He just doesn't have a body type and skill set that translates (to me) as a 4-3 pass rusher.

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

I got in an argument on here before the start of last season with someone who was trying to convince me Wilson was the next Miles Garrett.  I said the guy was delusional and Wilson was not in the same universe psychically or as a player that Garrett is.  It never surprises me how delusional some fans can be as there is nothing in Wilson's game that is close to anything Garrett does.  

I was in favor of Carter if we stayed put or trading back in the 1st for Porter Jr to aquire more picks and land a very good player at a position of need.    Both of those picks would have been far superior to Wilson who has underwhelmed thus far.  

My preference was Gonzales, preferably Gonzales with a trade back. 

A trade back and acquiring Gonzo/Porter + an additional high quality pick is definitely far superior to Wilson, and that isn't hindsight. 

Him being listed as an EDGE rusher, a premium position, only matters if he can actually make an impact, which he hasn't. He's decidedly not an EDGE rusher and he's just a body deep in the DT rotation. 

Specifically, if we could go back, I'd try everything imaginable to trade 7 to Detroit in exchange for a later 1st and one of their picks in the 2nd. I can't remember exactly what they started draft day with, but I do know we could have netted Porter Jr and Tuipolotu with them (based on where those two ultimately went). 

Those two >>>>> Wilson and it's not even close unless he was a HOF caliber player from the jump. 

Carter was off my board. No matter what he does, I'm never going to punk out and say I would have taken him. That's a decision I'll gladly own on here for the rest of time. 

Edited August 13 by ronjon1990

[Darbsk]

3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

This. You don't draft raw as hell "traits" in the top 10. Not when they're that raw, the guy is injured, and wasn't utterly dominant at his position to begin with. 

Tyree Wilson was beyond raw, he wasn't healthy, and was a 7 sack per year "pass rusher" in the Big12 ffs. That's far from dominating as a pass rusher in a pass-heavy conference. 

Exactly. His traits were basically height, weight and wingspan. He didn't run the 40 if I recall and the film showed a linear athlete. The kid I wanted this past draft was a 'traits' pick in Austin Booker, unrefined, lots of wasted energy but is energetic and aggressive with decent size and length. Those traits went where they should in the mid rounds, not top 10. If Tyree had ran a 4.4 40 or done some amazing 3 cone or something then you may consider him but he never should have been there IMHO. He wasn't on my big board at all.

[Darbsk]

24 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

My preference was Gonzales, preferably Gonzales with a trade back. 

A trade back and acquiring Gonzo/Porter + an additional high quality pick is definitely far superior to Wilson, and that isn't hindsight. 

Him being listed as an EDGE rusher, a premium position, only matters if he can actually make an impact, which he hasn't. He's decidedly not an EDGE rusher and he's just a body deep in the DT rotation. 

Specifically, if we could go back, I'd try everything imaginable to trade 7 to Detroit in exchange for a later 1st and one of their picks in the 2nd. I can't remember exactly what they started draft day with, but I do know we could have netted Porter Jr and Tuipolotu with them (based on where those two ultimately went). 

Those two >>>>> Wilson and it's not even close unless he was a HOF caliber player from the jump. 

Carter was off my board. No matter what he does, I'm never going to punk out and say I would have taken him. That's a decision I'll gladly own on here for the rest of time. 

We are of a like mind!

Loved Tuipolotu, Gonzalez and Porter, though Weathersoon was my favourite - but he went before we even had chance.

[ronjon1990]

2 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

We are of a like mind!

Loved Tuipolotu, Gonzalez and Porter, though Weathersoon was my favourite - but he went before we even had chance.

I wasn't as high on Weatherspoon as some. My top CB crushes were Gonzo, Porter, and Khyree Jackson (RIP). 

Thankfully, there's Madden, so I can fantasy fix things. 

 

[NCOUGHMAN]

9 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Thanks for posting that @NCOUGHMAN it's a bit deflating to watch sadly.

Be interested to hear your thoughts but what I saw:

• Not one pass rush move, no rip, no spin, no swim - just engage gently with both hands and slowly bullrush every play
• Tyree is obviously strong and powerful even when he doesn't use great leverage, he has a huge wingspan but never uses it, didn't jab with one arm or look to use the punch and rip move that Mack used to do with such great effect
• On run downs, I don't know if he may be being coached to almost '2 gap' as he is very, very passive in engaging with the tackle, he never jolts the guy back and is just stood there waiting to see what happens
• Even from a relatively low 4 point stance, he still stands upright very quickly rather than shooting forward like a Crosby or a Koonce
• Once his initial bull rush is absorbed by the tackle or guard he simply is done for the play, there's nothing else
• He seems very hesitant and even when unblocked doesn't seem to fully commit, no hands up to bat the ball, may be overthinking?
• I basically saw one decent bull rush part collapsing the pocket and one half decent pass rush inside when he arrows through between guard and tackle but ends up on the ground
• I didn't really see one dominant rep, nothing to get excited about at all, even the good bull rush the tackle absorbs 
• He plays way too high and that nullifies his terrific power
• He doesn't do anything with his hands at all and he has no violence in his hands
• It's almost like Tyree is waiting for the tackle to give him a chance, to make a slip or mistake when, to me, it's up to the pass rusher to create a chance, make the tackle over set or get turned or open the door, force the tackle to do something he doesn't want to

 

 

This basically saved me a lot of typing but yea just a waste of tremendous measurables. Only improvement was slightly better get off. Seeing him getting manhandled by 3 stringers was rough. Dallas turner is what you expect from a top 10 de. Tyree looks like a guy who just started playing football a few years ago 

[NYRaider]

If only we had Jalen Carter

[MrOaktown_56]

I think the biggest issues with Wilson are his get off and lack of moves. If he developed both with his physical tools he’d be a pro bowl DL. Rn he is a rotational inside pass rusher at best. We need to see a lot more and it’s just not good enough. Maybe he’s not responding to coaching well. It’s concerning for sure 

[MrOaktown_56]

Also a lot of analysts for the draft including Brett Kollmann raved about Wilson, then bashed him during the season 😂