Jeremy408 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: That's your opinion and thats great but odds say you're wrong and Daniels will be a bust. I don't know enough about Daniels to say if he's good or not as I have not watched much of him play but like I said odds indicate he will not be worth trading three 1st and more for. As you point out the reward is huge if you land a Superstar QB but the odds are quite slim and the risk is tremendous. It's also very easy to be an arm chair GM where there is no risk involved. Thinking like a GM is quite different when the risk involved is millions of dollars and your job . The risk involved with trading three firsts and more for a Sam Darnold ruins careers. I get that you want a quick fix by drafting a superstar QB, who doesn't but I do not think you're grasping exactly how difficult drafting one is. Everyone wants a quick fix by landing a superstar QB but I am in the value camp. This is no where near a complete team and we need an influx of talent before we can be true contenders. We need to draft well and build a young solid corp of talent so if we do and miss on our QB, similar to the 9ers did with Lance, it is not catastrophic. You build a solid corp by drafting well over a two to three year span but if a QB you highly value is within striking range and you can move up without having to mortgage the future that is when you take a QB. I disagree on your stance that this is a complete team as this team is no where near complete in terms of being a contender. We have a GM who was just fired from LA, a HC who is totally unproven, no QB, an unproven #1 running back, an aging #1 WR, an unproven TE, a sketch Oline, the makings of a good Dline, an average at best LB corp and a below average secondary. I would hardly call what I described as a "contender" especially considering the Raiders franchise has been one of the worst in the NFL over the last two decades. Another valid point. When we look at the last draft were a lot of quarterbacks were drafted it was the one with Trevor Lawrence Trey Lance Justin Fields and Mac Jones. Of all of them the only one that is starting and on his original team is Trevor Lawrence who was the number one overall pick. Very interesting. Both Justin Fields and Trey Lance were traded up for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jeremy408 said: You are speakin the truth. You have to understand really understand why quarterbacks are bust is that you always have to understand that there will always be at least 2 to 3 quarterbacks that get propped up out of the extraordinary need for quarterback. So inevitably quarterback will always get picked higher than it should. That is part of it and also it is extremely difficult to evaluate QB's and determining which ones will have success in the NFL. QB evaluation may be the most difficult evaluation for any GM in any sport. Very few QB's have extraordinary talent and intelligence that also possess the tremendous drive and work ethic it takes to be elite. Being able to identify that as a GM is extremely difficult. The teams overall stability in which the rookie QB's are drafted into are also very important. Stability at the GM/HC position, a HC who understands QB's, having a good supporting cast, not having a HC who is desperate and plays the rookie when he's ready are all critical for success along with many others. Edited March 24 by Frankie2Gunz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 13 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: That's your opinion and thats great but odds say you're wrong and Daniels will be a bust. I don't know enough about Daniels to say if he's good or not as I have not watched much of him play but like I said odds indicate he will not be worth trading three 1st and more for. As you point out the reward is huge if you land a Superstar QB but the odds are quite slim and the risk is tremendous. It's also very easy to be an arm chair GM where there is no risk involved. Thinking like a GM is quite different when the risk involved is millions of dollars and your job . The risk involved with trading three firsts and more for a Sam Darnold ruins careers. I get that you want a quick fix by drafting a superstar QB, who doesn't but I do not think you're grasping exactly how difficult drafting one is. Everyone wants a quick fix by landing a superstar QB but I am in the value camp. This is no where near a complete team and we need an influx of talent before we can be true contenders. We need to draft well and build a young solid corp of talent so if we do and miss on our QB, similar to the 9ers did with Lance, it is not catastrophic. You build a solid corp by drafting well over a two to three year span but if a QB you highly value is within striking range and you can move up without having to mortgage the future that is when you take a QB. When you build a solid corp of players you can win a SB with Matt Stafford at QB. I disagree on your stance that this is a complete team as this team is no where near complete in terms of being a contender. We have a GM who was just fired from LA, a HC who is totally unproven, no QB, an unproven #1 running back, an aging #1 WR, an unproven TE, a sketch Oline, the makings of a good Dline, an average at best LB corp and a below average secondary. I would hardly call what I described as a "contender" especially considering the Raiders franchise has been one of the worst in the NFL over the last two decades. Just to be clear, I don't think we are COMPLETE by any stretch... but we aren't baren. We do have some nice pieces in place. I was just stating that we are MORE complete than the team I was referencing, The Broncos. I do understand its risky. I also understand the points you are making, I just don't see us being close to a contender (which I don't think we are yet) until we have the QB. I don't disagree with you on many of your points, the the philosophy in which you garner your superstar QB which by all accounts is exceptionally hard to come by. That I do definitely agree with. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 21 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: That is part of it and also it is extremely difficult to evaluate QB's and determining which ones will have success in the NFL. QB evaluation may be the most difficult evaluation for any GM in any sport. Very few QB's have extraordinary talent that also possess tremendous drive and work ethic to be elite. Being able to identify that as a GM is extremely difficult. The teams overall stability in which the rookie QB's are drafted into are also very important. Stability at the GM/HC position, a HC who understands QB's, having a good supporting cast, not having a HC who is desperate and plays the rookie when he's ready are all critical for success along with many others. Right! Because the bear situation for example is already toast. There could potentially be a head-coaching change halfway through the season. And all of a sudden by this time next year whoever they pick in this draft(probably Caleb Williams) could up with a new head coach and GM who didn't draft him. Already they're starting behind the eight ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 The biggest myth in football is that complete teams exist. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 6 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said: Right! Because the bear situation for example is already toast. There could potentially be a head-coaching change halfway through the season. And all of a sudden by this time next year whoever they pick in this draft(probably Caleb Williams) could up with a new head coach and GM who didn't draft him. Already they're starting behind the eight ball Just look at T. Law. Generational talent who was a "can't miss" prospect then was drafted by a dysfunctional organization. Having Urben Meyer coaching him during his first year as an NFL QB, certainly hurt his development and has yet to show the talent and play everyone expected when he went 1 overall. If Williams is a superstar the HC will be there for awhile if Williams is anything below a top 10 QB he will be gone in short order. For the Bears the risk is only 1 pick and if Williams busts it will set them back but would not nearly be as catastrophic as a team trading three 1sts for a QB and having them bust. That is a horrendous blunder that sets a franchise back multiple years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 7 minutes ago, FloydFan said: The biggest myth in football is that complete teams exist. The closest thing to a complete team in the NFL is the 49ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Just look at T. Law. Generational talent who was a "can't miss" prospect then was drafted by a dysfunctional organization. Having Urben Meyer coaching him during his first year as an NFL QB, certainly hurt his development and has yet to show the talent and play everyone expected when he went 1 overall. If Williams is a superstar the HC will be there for awhile if Williams is anything below a top 10 QB he will be gone in short order. For the Bears the risk is only 1 pick and if Williams busts it will set them back but would not nearly be as catastrophic as a team trading three 1sts for a QB and having them bust. That is a horrendous blunder that sets a franchise back multiple years. Yep the Panthers are essentially screwed. And then you have to overcompensate by overpaying other positions to try to make the blunder work. The head coach they just hired gets fired because he can't make him work then the next head coach will likely move on and they'll have to start all over again. Call simply because one missed Gamble Edited March 24 by Jeremy408 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 10 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: The closest thing to a complete team in the NFL is the 49ers. I would agree, which also makes me think aiming for the QB is still the better decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 If we're not going QB, give me Arnold or Mitchell at #13. A stud #1 CB would make this defense elite. DL: Crosby | Wilson | Wilkins | Koonce LB: Deablo | Spillane CB: 1st Round Stud | Jones | Hobbs S: Epps | Moehrig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JarrodR86 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Definitely leaning towards the draft BPA at 13 and keep an eye on Penix in late first/early 2nd trade up. If we had solidified CB/RT/OG with long term vets in free agency, I would’ve entertained a big trade up. But with the lack of a quality starting QB on the top 3 teams, the cost is going to way too much and we do still need to build a core for the next 2-3 years if we want to build sustainable success, granted they draft well/coach well on top of that.. My most logical thinking says OT #13, Penix trade up if cost is 2nd and a 4th to get into the 25-32 range, then a CB in Rd 3 like Max Melton and a OG in the 5th that can likely develop into a starter.. this is still assuming we also sign vets at CB, OG and possibly RT as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Preparing myself mentally to not freak out when they say Penix at 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Watched more of Quinyon Mitchell. Not impressed at all in off-coverage. Arnold is a much cleaner, more scheme-versatile prospect. And his sub 6.7 3 cone is elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totty Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 1 hour ago, agarcia34 said: Preparing myself mentally to not freak out when they say Penix at 13. Man.... I hope not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 25 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Watched more of Quinyon Mitchell. Not impressed at all in off-coverage. Arnold is a much cleaner, more scheme-versatile prospect. And his sub 6.7 3 cone is elite. 4.5 tho, are we worried he might be a little slow? I like him alot tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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