Jordan Love Appreciation Thread

[beekay414]

Quit wasting your keystrokes. Life is significantly better with him on ignore.

[MacReady]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

It's value is in the ability to slowly rework fundamentals. It has no value when it comes to reading defenses or learning the timing of the offense you're in as well as the skills you're throwing to.

I'll ask you this. Jordan Love pre-season 2021, vs Jordan Love today. Noticeable improvement to you? It works. You still need reps with your guys, seeing how defenses play you though. No ability to simulate that. 

I’ve acknowledged we need to give Love one more year. I know that, I never said otherwise. What I’m saying is he’s shown enough bad to NOT extend him. That would be a tremendous mistake. He needs to play on a dead contract year before we extend him.

His issues are NOT normal. Terrible long ball accuracy. THAT is something training camps and preseasons should be able to fix. Four of them haven’t fixed it. His first half performances are God-awful. He’s probably at closer to 50% and 5 YPA than his current 57% and 6.4 YPA overall. 

[KFP7]

9 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Honest question. Do you expect these areas to get better simply by the passage of time? Meaning are you fine with going into 2024 with this same WR/TE group, and if so, would you then judge Love's play differently or otherwise hold him to a higher standard for his play? 

I'll answer first. I'm not expecting any material difference in the offense's play in 2024 if they keep everyone around meaning LaFleur, Love, same WRs, same TEs, basically same OL but for maybe a rookie added to the group. While I don't think they'll be as God awful in first halfs as they've been, overall they'll still be a bottom 10-15 unit. I think this offense has a major talent problem and that it's not about "letting them have time" and a light switch goes off. I think Love is doomed under the present circumstances he's in. He may be doomed anyways because he might not be a good QB, but he would at least have a fighting chance with a better cast around him. 

Now, your turn. 

same WRs plus MHJ of course

[incognito_man]

10 minutes ago, MacReady said:

Love’s numbers are extremely similar

Oh?

Weird.

[minnypackerfan]

8 minutes ago, MacReady said:

What you continue to neglect is the poor state of every roster who gets their franchise QB.

Teams get franchise quarterbacks because their teams suck the year before.

Allen had nobody at WR when he came in. Lawrence still has nobody. Daniel Jones never - EVER - had an elite or even GOOD #1 receiver. Lawrence had perhaps the worst NFL head coach for a rookie QB in a decade. Goff had a terrible coach and no receivers.

None of these quarterbacks are coming in in their FIRST YEAR (not fourth like Love), and they still looked significantly more promising.

I can acknowledge that things might change for Love. What NOBODY here acknowledges is that these issues Love is facing have not been limited to him. He is in a perfectly ordinary team for a first year starting QB. He has the benefit of having an offensive minded head coach plus four full training camps to sit and learn from a Hall of Fame quarterback who was VERY good to him.

These are all luxuries others did NOT have, and Still Love is performing worse than them

You and @incognito_man can huff and puff at my black and white conclusions on Love, and that’s fair. I have written him off too early. What’s not fair is that neither of you can acknowledge that these roster shortcomings are typical, not extraordinary. Further, Love’s offensive head coach is a luxury. Finally, four full training camps is a luxury not afforded to potential franchise quarterbacks who start immediately.

Stop citing the supporting cast. His supporting cast is typical. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Buffalo_Bills_season

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Jacksonville_Jaguars_season

To neglect four entire training camps of being prepared is irrational. To neglect a good coaching staff (as far as offense, I will grant I have plenty of issues with LaFleur overall), and the paltry state of all first year starting quarterbacks is just as unfair and irrational as me writing him off after one year.

This was Lawrence's first year stats. 12 Touchdowns and 17 intercepts and a completion rate of 59.6%. I watched a lot of those games and he did not look like a number 1 pick in the draft. He looked confused, inaccurate, and made very poor decisions as you would expect of a first year player...even a Number 1 pick. Even with that, I agree its disturbing that Love is in his 4th year and he looks no better (or worse) than Lawrence in his first year.  But to say Lawrence looked better at that time is a reach in my opinion. Lawrence had a QB rating of 71.9 for the year versus Love's which right now is 78.2.  And Lawrence took a ton of sacks because he could not read defenses quickly.

Jacksonville Jaguars    17    602    359    59.6    3641    6    58    12    17    177    29.4    43    32    238    71.9

This was Allen's first year stats in 11 games. 10 Touchdowns and 12 intercepts and a completion rate of 52.8%. Josh sprayed the ball all over the place. A QB rating of 67.9. 

Buffalo Bills

12

11

169

320

2074

52.8     6.5

10

12

28

213

67.9

We should all doubt whether or not Love is the guy. But I have not given up on him yet. Your statement that LeFleur and his coaching staff is better than what the other players had their first year is also something that should be in doubt by now.

What is happening is not all that uncommon. Other teams get game film and they start game planning for the QB and what that offense does. So it does not surprise me they are struggling right now at this point in the season. What I'm hoping to see from now to the end of the year is GROWTH, both from Love and the entire offense. I'm patient and I'm willing to give him that. This last game was a terrible game for the WR's in terms of drops and winning contested throws. We're the worst in the league in winning contested throws and in the bottom 7 in drop rate. But Love's deep throws are a major problem.

What I would like to see from Love before the end of the year is the following: More decisive and correct reads, and improved ball accuracy on deep balls. The first could come due to reps and improved route running by the WR's and tight ends. The second is about technique...but I worry he just does not have the natural talent there.

 

[MacReady]

4 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Oh?

Weird.

Is LaFleur as bad as Meyer was? No.

Did Lawrence have four years to get ready with tutelage by a top 10 all-time QB?

Weird.

The situations are NOT similar. Don’t debase yourself so far as to act like they are.

[MacReady]

11 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Quit wasting your keystrokes. Life is significantly better with him on ignore.

I’ve been more than fair in my assessment and you know it.

I’ve acknowledged he requires a second year.

I am harping on four years of training should have had him performing better than this. And he should be.

Before the season I said he should be in the 30 TD, 10 INT, 3,500-4,000 range and at 60%, 6.5 YPA.

Considering the NFL changes in rules, that’s completely fair considering Rodgers was in that area on touchdowns and INTs and had 3 full percentage points and an entire yard higher YPA. We can live with Love if Love is even Kirk Cousins level. We cannot if he is Daniel Jones level. Daniel Jones was 4% higher, .2 YPA higher with worse receivers and a single solitary year to get ready with a 2/1 TD/INT ratio.

I put very fair expectations on him he has not met and looks nowhere near meeting.

That is a legitimate cause for concern when any extension locks us in on potentially four years of substandard play.

I have been the most reasonable person in this conversation today. Granting and countering points.

You just don’t want to believe it because you don’t want to see reality. Jordan Love has shown legitimate causes for concern. If that’s unreasonable…

 

[Pugger]

10 minutes ago, minnypackerfan said:

This was Lawrence's first year stats. 12 Touchdowns and 17 intercepts and a completion rate of 59.6%. I watched a lot of those games and he did not look like a number 1 pick in the draft. He looked confused, inaccurate, and made very poor decisions as you would expect of a first year player...even a Number 1 pick. Even with that, I agree its disturbing that Love is in his 4th year and he looks no better (or worse) than Lawrence in his first year.  But to say Lawrence looked better at that time is a reach in my opinion. Lawrence had a QB rating of 71.9 for the year versus Love's which right now is 78.2.  And Lawrence took a ton of sacks because he could not read defenses quickly.

Jacksonville Jaguars    17    602    359    59.6    3641    6    58    12    17    177    29.4    43    32    238    71.9

This was Allen's first year stats in 11 games. 10 Touchdowns and 12 intercepts and a completion rate of 52.8%. Josh sprayed the ball all over the place. A QB rating of 67.9. 

Buffalo Bills

12

11

169

320

2074

52.8     6.5

10

12

28

213

67.9

We should all doubt whether or not Love is the guy. But I have not given up on him yet. Your statement that LeFleur and his coaching staff is better than what the other players had their first year is also something that should be in doubt by now.

What is happening is not all that uncommon. Other teams get game film and they start game planning for the QB and what that offense does. So it does not surprise me they are struggling right now at this point in the season. What I'm hoping to see from now to the end of the year is GROWTH, both from Love and the entire offense. I'm patient and I'm willing to give him that. This last game was a terrible game for the WR's in terms of drops and winning contested throws. We're the worst in the league in winning contested throws and in the bottom 7 in drop rate. But Love's deep throws are a major problem.

What I would like to see from Love before the end of the year is the following: More decisive and correct reads, and improved ball accuracy on deep balls. The first could come due to reps and improved route running by the WR's and tight ends. The second is about technique...but I worry he just does not have the natural talent there.

 

I haven't given up on Love yet either.  Yes, he isn't a rookie but he is a first year starter.  Running the scout team at practice is not the same as being the starter.  I hope the game slows down for him and those around him improve too by the end of this season.   With this being a rebuilding year we should give him the opportunity and time (the rest of the season at least) before we throw the baby out with the bath water.

[MacReady]

Nobody wants Love to succeed more than I do. But to assume he’s going to is dangerous. To point out his flaws instead f universally adore him is exceedingly beneficial.

The timing of his contract is at stake. If we neglect his flaws now and accept him universally as a fan base is what leads to the Jaguars sticking with Minshew instead of looking to improve.

We have to constantly question ways to improve our roster and demand excellence, not okaycellence.

Love WILL be better next year. That’s a given. Good enough? That’s the question.

[incognito_man]

15 minutes ago, MacReady said:

Is LaFleur as bad as Meyer was? No.

Did Lawrence have four years to get ready with tutelage by a top 10 all-time QB?

Weird.

The situations are NOT similar. Don’t debase yourself so far as to act like they are.

I never said or implied the situations were similar.

But then again, neither are their respective performances. Love is much better 

[MacReady]

1 minute ago, incognito_man said:

I never said or implied the situations were similar.

But then again, neither are their respective performances. Love is much better 

So you hope not so you know.

I just don’t sense it. I love his attitude when behind and in dire situations. He has a killer instinct and isn’t afraid of taking risks. So far he’s been killed rather than killed. 

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, MacReady said:

Nobody wants Love to succeed more than I do. But to assume he’s going to is dangerous. To point out his flaws instead f universally adore him is exceedingly beneficial.

The timing of his contract is at stake. If we neglect his flaws now and accept him universally as a fan base is what leads to the Jaguars sticking with Minshew instead of looking to improve.

We have to constantly question ways to improve our roster and demand excellence, not okaycellence.

Love WILL be better next year. That’s a given. Good enough? That’s the question.

I dont think there's cause for "contractual concern" as I dont see an extension coming anytime soon. Realistically, he's seven games into his career...and things have not been hitting on all cylinders - with and around him. 

[MacReady]

14 minutes ago, Leader said:

I dont think there's cause for "contractual concern" as I dont see an extension coming anytime soon. Realistically, he's seven games into his career...and things have not been hitting on all cylinders - with and around him. 

He has next year left. We don’t typically wait until the last year to redo a contract, so we have until about this time next year.

[malak1]

51 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I'm pretty much with you on the Love stuff to date except for this. Love's supporting cast is, in a word, "blah." There isn't a single guy there who a team even remotely gameplans for before Sunday. No one to fear. No one who makes any plays. This is painfully obvious when you watch the Packers and then watch other teams play offense. There's nothing there. 

Which skill players are you game planning against when you play carolina or texas. The dude is kind of a psycho, but he's right, most starting rookie QBs enter into really bad situations. 

[Mazrimiv]

2 hours ago, incognito_man said:

I don't like stupidity. There's never a reason to distribute it more widely.

Cowherd only dreams of posting hot takes as stupid as what is in this forum.