Unpopular opinion... Josh Harris should clean house & tank for Caleb Williams

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

You know -funny thing is --I think they've built this defense for ends that just secure the edge and keep the QB in the middle so the tackles can break down the pocket and get the sacks. They don't want the QBs getting to the edge . In that case Toohill and J S-W work just fine . 

No they don’t. They work fine if you want to just be a defense that’s above average & makes no game changing plays but we all know in 2020 when our DL was in tact and healthy they made some game changing plays, they even made a few in 2021. 
 

Since when do we as fans strive to just have average pass rushers?

We have never accepted that as a fans. If we have average pass rushers, we all want DE with the next years 1st round pick.

[Thaiphoon]

15 hours ago, turtle28 said:

And, what's the difference between having that now & having that next March? Or getting that comp pick? Which you yourself just said would be viewed as a round higher of a pick in next years draft bc it would be w 2025 pick.

It's a round lower, not higher.

So a 2025 3rd rounder is like a 2024 4th rounder.

If you can get a 2024 2nd and 4th or 2nd and 5th, you're making out better than waiting to get a 2025 3rd.

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, turtle28 said:

Personally, I have no faith in Montez Sweat being anything more than average. He’s been on our team since 2019 & has rarely had games where he’s great. If Chase shows anything like he did in 2020 then it’s a pretty easy decision to let Sweat walk & take the comp pick while franchising the 24-year-old Chase & hopefully signing him to a long term deal before training camp next year like we did with Payne.

Then there we go. I'm okay with keeping the better of the two that show up this year. If it's Sweat? Good. If it's Chase? also good. IF we can swing signing both, that would be great. But this is the year where one shows he is better than the other. 

But based upon past production, Sweat has so far shown to be the better overall player.

[MikeT14]

1 hour ago, Slappy Mc said:

Bro... you really gotta take off the Chase-Young-Homer glasses. 

Here is some stats for you...

Games played:

59 out of 66 games played, 1 INT, 1 INT TD, 10 passes defended, 7 FF, 29 sacks, 165 total tackles, 37 tackles for loss, 74 QB hits. 

27 out of 50 games played, 7 passes defended, 6 FF, 3 FR, 1 FR TD, 9 sacks, 75 total tackles, 13 tackles for loss, 17 QB hits. 

I didn’t think I needed to tell you who is statistically better, but here we are. While playing 1 more year than Chase, Montez has 20 more sacks or 3.2 times as many. For simplicity, 1 sack every 2.28 games for Montez, 1 sack every 3 games for Chase. Montez has played in 89% of his total possible games. Chase has played in 54% of his total possible games. The biggest difference is tackles for loss and QB hits. (Kinda important for the position). Montez has 37 TFL (.63/game), Chase has 13 TFL (.48/game). Montez has 74 QB hits (1.12/game), Chase has 17 QB hits (.63/game). 

Almost every way you slice it, Montez Sweat has been a better pro player than Chase Young. For you to say if Chase performs anything like his rookie year, which I will remind you that Montez Sweat was statistically better than Chase all year, that it would be an easy decision, you shown how little you care for production and are more fascinated with "untapped potential". 

I think I have exhausted my mental capacity for this exercise. 

You’re just reiterating yourself at this point unfortunately 

[4209]

 

[4209]

Saw some of his games last yr and he looks okay. He looks like a stud with some running ability. But Caleb is elite.

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by 4209

[RSkinGM]

12 hours ago, turtle28 said:

No they don’t. They work fine if you want to just be a defense that’s above average & makes no game changing plays but we all know in 2020 when our DL was in tact and healthy they made some game changing plays, they even made a few in 2021. 
 

Since when do we as fans strive to just have average pass rushers?

We have never accepted that as a fans. If we have average pass rushers, we all want DE with the next years 1st round pick.

Our defense allowed the fewest completions and first downs in the NFL.. Seems pretty good using those two DEs and Sweat most of the year .

[turtle28]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

Then there we go. I'm okay with keeping the better of the two that show up this year. If it's Sweat? Good. If it's Chase? also good. IF we can swing signing both, that would be great. But this is the year where one shows he is better than the other. 

But based upon past production, Sweat has so far shown to be the better overall player.

Yes I understand bc Chase got hurt. We all know. 

[turtle28]

45 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Our defense allowed the fewest completions and first downs in the NFL.. Seems pretty good using those two DEs and Sweat most of the year .

Where is that stat from?

[turtle28]

12 hours ago, 4209 said:

Saw some of his games last yr and he looks okay. He looks like a stud with some running ability. But Caleb is elite.

 

Yes, Caleb is miles ahead of the others. If we got Drake Maye we’d great a great prospect too. I don’t think he’s a guy who will ever be considered the top QB in the league but, if you have a team built like ours is with a Drake Maye in his 3rd or 4th year of development then maybe you can be a contender.

[RSkinGM]

51 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Where is that stat from?

The defense was very good at avoiding penalties, ranking 27^th in the NFL in total penalties committed (85), and tied for 26^th in penalty yards. The Commanders' passing defense allowed the fewest completions (308) and first downs (155) in the NFL.Feb 21, 2023

 

Could be bogus-Googled it , of course

[lavar703]

59 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yes, Caleb is miles ahead of the others. If we got Drake Maye we’d great a great prospect too. I don’t think he’s a guy who will ever be considered the top QB in the league but, if you have a team built like ours is with a Drake Maye in his 3rd or 4th year of development then maybe you can be a contender.

I don't think he's miles ahead of Drake Maye. I think he's ahead of Maye but its not by much. I also think its quite possible that if Maye were playing for Lincoln Riley their rankings might be reversed. 

[ARTMONK HOF]

It’s very hard to compare Williams and Maye. Two completely opposite type QB’s. Reason he’s the no.1, Williams fits the type of QB that’s more prevalent in todays NFL. Maye is more the traditional type QB that you looked for in size and being a pocket passer. Which offense does your team run? 

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes I understand bc Chase got hurt. We all know

Nope. Because on a per game basis, he's just been better. You've got to stop excusing his first 9 games in 2021 and explaining away that the Young criticism is because of his injury. Has (almost) nothing to do with that injury and everything to do with his production on the field. I'm not saying Sweat has been a better player because Chase got hurt. I'm saying that on a game to game basis, I can count on Sweat more than I can Chase.

[naptownskinsfan]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:26 PM, Thaiphoon said:

You finna get dragged by the "never tank" crowd.

I don't like intentionally tanking an entire season. But I absolutely understand recognizing a season is getting away from us and we're not going to make the playoffs and then tanking (or - not putting forth the most effort to win) to ensure we had a better pick. One more loss in a season and Joe Burrow is our QB. An earlier season, an additional loss would've gotten us Luck and not had us trading 4 picks away to draft a QB.

There's an argument to be made to tank. But that is specific to the current conditions during a season. I do not recommend going into an offseason and then a season with the intention to tank the entire season. No. I do have a line.

Seeing how this worked for the Orioles, I definitely am in favor of it.  Even after graduating Adley, Henderson and a couple others, these guys still have eight prospects in MLB Pipeline’s Top 100.  The Orioles are going to be good for a long time, and part of that has to do with tanking.  

However, in the NFL, if you have competent leadership, which we haven’t had since Joe Gibbs 1.0, you can turn things around fairly quickly and your one losing season wouldn’t even be considered a tank job.  

And that is the other part.  The Orioles actually got competent leadership who did not ignore the Latin American player pool.  They did not ignore the analytics department.  They did not ignore overhauling a player development system whose employees’ biggest claim to fame were being former Orioles.  This is where the Commanders are it.  We do not have competent football people, and besides Eric Schaeffer and Kyle Smith, haven’t really had them………and there was only so much those two could do without being fully in-charge.