StLunatic88 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 34 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: at what point does Fields become “Poles’ guy”? As you state, its kind of unanswerable. But I would say it really depends on what Poles told the McCaskey's when they hired him. Did he come in pounding the table that he believes in Justin, that he knows that they already have the QB and he just needs to build up around him? Or did he say, we may have a QB, but if you give me 2.5/3.5 seasons to build up this roster from the ground up, and either Justin will prove himself, or if he doesnt then we will go all in once the roster is build for the right guy? I tend to believe he pitched the latter, and its a parallel project with evaluating Justin and building the Roster. Which is why continuing on this path for another year (Plus a 5YO) is fine to me, because I do beleive if he just cant get over the hump, Poles will pull the rip cord and then go get a vet or the Top Prospect he thinks can lead this team. But by building the rest of the roster FIRST it makes that final step of a new QB (Vet or Rookie) so much easier. Justin's major leap forward in leadership is what has complicated things, and I can see for alot of fans, they dont want to take that into account, just what Fantasy numbers they can look at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: he will need major coaching when it comes to playing more within structure because he will be destroyed trying to play the way he does right now in the NFL because he doesn't have the size and elite athletic upside of Fields or an Allen even a Lamar... I wish I could like this entire post 100x But this right here is a scary thing to me. NFL Defenses THRIVE on guys trying to play out of structure. The structure is an offenses biggest weapon, because you know what you are supposed to be doing while the Defense is reacting. As soon as that breaks down, it becomes who has the more Elite athletes to make a play. Where its at best 5 guys on offense (if your QB or TE can be one of those elite athletes/players to go along with the WRs/RB) against 7/8 guys on defense. Its what makes Mahomes so great. Not that he can make playground plays, but that he can execute the structured offense so well, and then those handful of times that things do break down, he ALSO has the ability to play backyard football better than anyone else. You can do it almost anytime you want in college, weve seen so many guys do it (Johnny, Baker, Tebo, VY, Chase Daniel, Colt Brennan) the list seemingly doesnt end, but its not like that in the NFL I worry that not only does Caleb jump to that part of his game too quickly, but he doesnt have that Size to constantly do it in the NFL (Cam Newton is really the only guy who was ever able to do it over a sustained period in the NFL, even JF gets banged up). Can you teach that out of him? Probably, hes smart enough, but is he too stubborn? Either way, I highly doubt he is going to be clear of that in Year 1 or 2 of his career. Which likely leads to the Cycle so many of you are worried about 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 As much as I don't want it...it wouldn't shock me if everyone is back next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: As much as I don't want it...it wouldn't shock me if everyone is back next year. Especially if the offense looks good in a win this weekend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: As much as I don't want it...it wouldn't shock me if everyone is back next year. Well judging by that recent video on the Bears social media with Flus, Poles and a bunch of position coaches all together in the meeting room surprising Sweat and Jaylon with their pro bowl awards, the vibe I get is that Flus isn't going anywhere. It also seems that JJ will be re-signed given that Poles, in that clip, said he was proud of him and they were embracing one another. And honestly I don't really mind this decision at alldespite my frustrations with this coaching staff at times The team is finally trending in a winning direction. Also the way the players talk about Flus says to me thay they love the guy and it is evident given how they have continued to play hard for him through all the downs and losing. Now I don't think Flus returning necessarily means that Gesty will be. Again this all depends on what they do at QB. If Fields returns then I'd say 50/50 chance Getsy returns but when Flus was approached on this question the other day he kind of brushed it off and didn't exactly give a full endorsement or support of Getsy As for Flus remaining and the possibility of drafting a new QB..I mean this wouldn't be ideal at all, but I was thinking about it and maybe just maybe Flus will not be on the hot seat as much as we think he'll be going into next season unless the team has a total meltdown / collapse and regresses a ton. What if Poles / Eberflus gave ownership the impression this would be at least a 4-year process ? We hear the talk all the time of how the McCaskeys model the Steelers franchise and their stability with their coaches, so I think these two (Poles & Flus) may have more leeway than we think they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: this idea that Caleb is so good he is going to walk in and instantly make us a great team is just a falsehood because he is still going to have the rookie growing pains that the vast majority of QB prospects before him have had... Aside from moronic masses making their normal outrageous hot takes, I think most people are looking much more long term than just next year. Clickbait headlines will always be there but thats not what most of usel believe. Most of us are looking at him compared to Fields and what their ceilings are. I believe Williams has potantial to be a top 5 QB in the league, I dont believe Fields ever could. He might have one crazy year or something but I don't see him ever being THAT good. Does that mean he is a 100% surefire franchise QB? Of course not. But 3 years in neither is Fields. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: It absolutely does, he is not some "generational talent". He is just a good QB prospect. Every draft in the past decade other than 2022 (Pickett) has had atleast one prospect on Williams level or better, most have had multiple. 2018 is the only other debatable class (although with Allen's ceiling and Baker's similarities) 2015: Jameis Winston 2016: Jared Goff, Carson Wentz 2017: Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson 2018: Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield 2019: Kyler Murray 2020: Joe Burrow, Justin Herbert, Tua Tagovailoa 2021: Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields 2023: C.J. Stroud, Bryce Young 2024: Drake Maye Every single one of these draft classes has someone, if not multiple guys who are as good of prospects as Caleb Williams is currently. Not the Williams who walked across the stage for his Heisman 13 months ago, who looked like he had all the potential in the world to grow into. The guy who did not take another leap in 2023, who we saw the holes in his game, and who likely showed he isnt quite the leader that he marketed himself as. And at least a handful of those guys were better prospects at the time of thje draft than Williams is. In just the last 5 drafts, I have Williams in the same tier as Maye, Stroud, Fields, Tua and Kyler. With Burrow, Herbert and Lawrence all clearly above him. It would not be a bad move to go into the future with Caleb Williams, but saying he is some form of "generational talent" or however you want to quantify it, is just fan fiction at this point. And for next year, Sanders, Ewers and Beck are all likely to slot in right around or just behind that group once they get through the draft process. And then the next year were into Malachi Nelson, Arch Manning, Dante Moore amongst others who are already getting the crazy hype levels. Agree to disagree. He is a very good prospect. Some highly respected evaluators say he's the best QB to come out since Luck. His arm talent, release and ability to read a defense are in my mind elite. Again it's the mental and leadership part of the equation that would give me some pause, but in terms of a pure QB throwing talent the Bears will be hard pressed to be in this position again to draft someone of Williams' caliber without having to give up a ton to move up...because getting another 1st overall pick seems extremely unlikely I will end this by saying that I love Fields and fully believe he can/will only continue to get better but I won't be mad if they decide to move on from him for Caleb provided he checks all the boxes after they have done their full due diligence. It is what it is. That's the harsh reality of this business, you can't get too emotionally attached. That's what gets GM's and coaches fired Edited January 4 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, StLunatic88 said: I feel so crazy being against both sides of this conversation, but blaming the defenses, and calling them "collapses" is just trying to cover/make excuses for Fields/Getsy/The Offense Go back and look at how many of those "collapses" are preceded by a 3 & Out by this offense. Like I just said, Im not even asking them to drive the field and score a TD, or even a FG, but just MOVE the ball for a First Down or two to run out the clock, and they cant even do that most of the time. I wrote this as well: Quote That being said, Fields and the offense certainly need to do a better job closing out games. Tyler Scott blew that opportunity in Denver, refs screwed us in Cleveland, etc etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 45 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: In the extremely vast majority, people who want to stick with Fields over drafting Williams aren’t taking that position because they don’t think Williams could potentially be great in 2024 or beyond. They’re taking that position because they think Fields could also potentially be great in 2024 or beyond, and we already have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 2 hours ago, topwop1 said: Some highly respected evaluators say he's the best QB to come out since Luck. Anyone saying this is lying. Or at the very least playing some weird revisionist history. There is No World where you can say he is a better prospect than Trevor Lawrence. Zero Chance. He was quite literally anointed "The Chosen One" in college, and lived up to that through his entire time at Clemson and through the Draft process. Saying anything other than that today is just trying to make a statement on what he is doing right now in he league, but thats not how draft evaluations work. And I would love to hear someone stumble around trying to make the case over Joe Burrow as well. On build alone he is plenty behind those two, and I dont see much he can claim he is better than either of those. 2 hours ago, topwop1 said: His arm talent, release and ability to read a defense are in my mind elite. I find this one the most inflated thing the Caleb supporters try to use. Making 1.5 reads and then scrambling isnt reading a defense. He just knows he doesnt have to throw those if they arent open because he can out athlete most college defenses. doesnt work like that in the pros Edited January 4 by StLunatic88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/possible-luke-getsy-replacement-sounds-like-a-big-justin-fields-fan/ Greg Roman... "Oh I think Justin Fields has a ton of potential. I really do. I think his flashes this year...I think their team's on the rise. I think it'd be really hard to move on from him at this point. I think he's shown a lot of promise. So I mean if you just absolutely feel like, you know, the Quarterback in college is the guy, then maybe you make the move. But I don't know man, they're building something and I think that kids got a chance to be pretty special" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 5 hours ago, Madmike90 said: As much as I don't want it...it wouldn't shock me if everyone is back next year. Worth bringing up that Luke probably knows that if there are any staff/players are getting lined up in front of the metaphorical firing squad, that he's getting the first blindfold and cigarette. The entirety of his job security here is tied directly to JF1, and he probably knows that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Add Justin Jones to the list... I know I am obviously in the keep Justin camp but honestly I have never seen this amount of players stand up for another player like this before...I don't think anyone can question just how tight that locker room is right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G08 Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, Madmike90 said: https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/possible-luke-getsy-replacement-sounds-like-a-big-justin-fields-fan/ Greg Roman... "Oh I think Justin Fields has a ton of potential. I really do. I think his flashes this year...I think their team's on the rise. I think it'd be really hard to move on from him at this point. I think he's shown a lot of promise. So I mean if you just absolutely feel like, you know, the Quarterback in college is the guy, then maybe you make the move. But I don't know man, they're building something and I think that kids got a chance to be pretty special" GREAT find! Roman makes the most sense to me but I worry they'll run it back with Jetski, er I mean Getsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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