turtle28 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: If I'm being completely honest, I included that for those who are saying drafting a QB is a must. I have already stated that I am not sold on any of these QBs being "the guy." In a perfect world, with the described scenario, you take Bowers if available (really think he will be a star). If not available I would go OT. Then in the 2nd you could select a MLB, G, OT (if not selected in Rnd 1) and/or DE. Something like this: #11 - Brock Bowers #36 - Troy Fautanu #40 - Edgerrin Cooper #42 - Tyler Guyton Looks like more mediocrity to me unless Sam Howell becomes a top tenish QB in the future - which is possible but a huge gamble - which is the issue. We need a definite top 10 like QB if we want to go from below average/mediocre at best to being a perennial playoff team that's competing for Super Bowls again. This is not the 1980s anymore. Edited January 8 by turtle28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: I disagree, they process faster. Sam as 1st year QB wasn’t processing fast enough to get the ball out most of the time. All of the pressures and sacks weren’t all on the OL, we know this. I think a lot of times a QB like Tua or Herbert would’ve made a decision and had the ball out before the pressure got there where Howell was taking longer to get off his first read and then was pressured or took a sack. I think you are forgetting how tragic Tua was his rookie year. So much so, it was widely considered that Miami may trade him and move on. It wasn't until Mike McDaniels came into the picture that Tua looked good. This essentially is what I have been trying to say, the right coach/qb combo makes all the difference. I had hopes for EB and Howell, but neither have lived up to the aspirations. Whoever we draft/sign, it needs to be the right fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: I'm not sure that LT is a premium position. What I mean by this is, there isn't a lot that a LT can do to win you a football game. A bad LT can definitely lose you a football game, but even the best LT in the sport doesn't actually score you any points. So realistically, you just need your offense line to be good enough to not lose you the game. This should be able to be accomplished with 2nd, 3rd and 4th round picks. Counterpoint. All of the top LTs in the NFL were drafted in the first round. Not saying that you are wrong that you can't put together a solid enough offensive line without drafting a LT early, but I firmly believe in building through the trenches and LT (or RT with a lefty QB) is the most important, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I think you are forgetting how tragic Tua was his rookie year. So much so, it was widely considered that Miami may trade him and move on. It wasn't until Mike McDaniels came into the picture that Tua looked good. This essentially is what I have been trying to say, the right coach/qb combo makes all the difference. I had hopes for EB and Howell, but neither have lived up to the aspirations. Whoever we draft/sign, it needs to be the right fit. I think the Tua/Herbert combo with Bieniemy works much better than a 1st year starting QB in Bieniemy’s offense. They just process faster so the ball is gone instead of how it was with Howell a lot of times with him getting pressured of sacked by the time he had made his decision. We’ll never know the answer though, we’re both just guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said: Counterpoint. All of the top LTs in the NFL were drafted in the first round. Not saying that you are wrong that you can't put together a solid enough offensive line without drafting a LT early, but I firmly believe in building through the trenches and LT (or RT with a lefty QB) is the most important, IMO. Not true. There's several playoff teams that don't have a 1st round LT playing for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 minute ago, turtle28 said: I think the Tua/Herbert combo with Bieniemy works much better than a 1st year starting QB in Bieniemy’s offense. They just process faster so the ball is gone instead of how it was with Howell a lot of times with him getting pressured of sacked by the time he had made his decision. We’ll never know the answer though, we’re both just guessing. So again, that is the staff not putting our QBs in a successful position. I agree with @taylor made, Brissett would have most likely succeeded more in EBs offense than Howell did. EB refused to cater to the QB and threw 40+ times per game, that's hardly Howells fault. Ultimately Ron Rivera is at fault for all of it as he hired EB and deferred everything offensively to him (other than saying Howell needed to start). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Not true. There's several playoff teams that don't have a 1st round LT playing for them. I didn't say there aren't successful teams without a 1st round LT. I said all of the best LTs in the NFL were drafted in the 1st round. I challenge you to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 13 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Counterpoint. All of the top LTs in the NFL were drafted in the first round. Not saying that you are wrong that you can't put together a solid enough offensive line without drafting a LT early, but I firmly believe in building through the trenches and LT (or RT with a lefty QB) is the most important, IMO. That wasn't my point though. Drafting a LT is generally a safe pick as the generally turn out to be good players. What I'm saying is that maybe spending a high draft pick on a premium LT wouldn't produce as many wins as taking a premium WR at the top of the draft and getting a good enough LT later in the draft. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 6 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I didn't say there aren't successful teams without a 1st round LT. I said all of the best LTs in the NFL were drafted in the 1st round. I challenge you to prove me wrong. Terron Armstrong (Dolphins) Dion Dawkins (Bills) Taylor Moton (Panthers) Jordan Mailata (Eagles) but I'll give you they luck boxed themselves into the former rugby player 7th round pick developing into a good LT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I didn't say there aren't successful teams without a 1st round LT. I said all of the best LTs in the NFL were drafted in the 1st round. I challenge you to prove me wrong. Terron Armstead and Jordan Mailata immediately come to mind and that’s without looking it up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 15 minutes ago, lavar703 said: Terron Armstead and Jordan Mailata immediately come to mind and that’s without looking it up. 16 minutes ago, turtle28 said: Terron Armstrong (Dolphins) Dion Dawkins (Bills) Taylor Moton (Panthers) Jordan Mailata (Eagles) but I'll give you they luck boxed themselves into the former rugby player 7th round pick developing into a good LT Where do they rank as far as LTs go? Armstead is one I guess I had assumed was a 1st round pick, but is Mailata a top LT? Moton and Dawkins aren't in the top 10 as far as I'm concerned. *Edit* With all that said, you guys proved me wrong. Not ALL of the top LTs were drafted in the 1st round. So... touchè Edited January 8 by Slappy Mc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 11 minutes ago, MKnight82 said: That wasn't my point though. Drafting a LT is generally a safe pick as the generally turn out to be good players. What I'm saying is that maybe spending a high draft pick on a premium LT wouldn't produce as many wins as taking a premium WR at the top of the draft and getting a good enough LT later in the draft. I absolutely understand your point. I cannot argue that selecting a WR or even a DE wouldn't yield more wins than a OT, but it sure would be nice to draft a guy so we didn't have to worry about that position for 8-10 years. You are absolutely correct though, a skill position early would/could generate more wins than a lineman. I'm just old fashioned I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSkinGM Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 4 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I absolutely understand your point. I cannot argue that selecting a WR or even a DE wouldn't yield more wins than a OT, but it sure would be nice to draft a guy so we didn't have to worry about that position for 8-10 years. You are absolutely correct though, a skill position early would/could generate more wins than a lineman. I'm just old fashioned I guess. a first round L T is OK in the first if it's out of the top 10 but #2 's got to be a game changer ! Just too high for an O L . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RSkinGM said: a first round L T is OK in the first if it's out of the top 10 but #2 's got to be a game changer ! Just too high for an O L . You guys remember the days when the top picks were different positions other than QB? Long gone are the days of building through the trenches I guess. It's crazy to me that with a top pick like that, you must draft a QB unless you already have your QBotF. Edited January 8 by Slappy Mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 10 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: I absolutely understand your point. I cannot argue that selecting a WR or even a DE wouldn't yield more wins than a OT, but it sure would be nice to draft a guy so we didn't have to worry about that position for 8-10 years. You are absolutely correct though, a skill position early would/could generate more wins than a lineman. I'm just old fashioned I guess. My concern is we had this for 20 years with Chris Samuels and Trent Williams and we still sucked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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