XFL and USFL officially announce intent to merge leagues

[ET80]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

Seems like the best way of doing it would have been to take kids straight out of HS. But with NIL, that door is mostly closed.

One key thing about NIL - schools aren't paying it. These funds are coming from businesses and such, so it's not as if they NEED to be enrolled.

[adamq]

16 hours ago, ET80 said:

Hopefully the on-field product will improve. 

Next step for this league: Hit the NCAA Transfer Portal. Find some young talent that isn't NFL eligible but looking to get out of their current commitment, get em signed until they're draft eligible and start improving the on-field product while providing an alternative to 3-4 years of college football.

The NBA has done something similar with the G League and its been very successful. They have nabbed several elite prospects to play on their developmental team rather than go play college ball

[OkeyDoke21]

16 hours ago, G said:

Eric Swann did something like that if I recall

Whoa.  That's a name I haven't heard in a long time.  I remember him as an NFL player, but he was a prospect before my time.  I remember the late 90 contract coverage around him.  I can't believe he went 6th overall with the path he took.  I'd love to see his semi-pro tape lol.  It has to be outrageous watching some line cook who didn't want to hang it up after high school try and block him.  I'm glad you brought him up.  That was a some info I had no knowledge of.

Kenny Robinson did something similar to what ET is talking about from WVU in XFL 2.0

Edited September 29, 2023 by OkeyDoke21

[Chrissooner49er]

8 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Seems like the best way of doing it would have been to take kids straight out of HS. But with NIL, that door is mostly closed.

This isn't the NBA. Most high schools do not have the strength and conditioning programs necessary for playing at the NFL level. That could get some kids seriously hurt. And the 3 years removed from high school graduating class requirement helps them have the time to build their skills and body. 

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, ET80 said:

One key thing about NIL - schools aren't paying it. These funds are coming from businesses and such, so it's not as if they NEED to be enrolled.

C'mon, ET. That's not how it's working in actual practice. Rich boosters are paying kids NIL money to attend their favored university. They're not going to pay them NIL money to play in the XFL or USFL or whatever it will be called.

[ET80]

12 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

C'mon, ET. That's not how it's working in actual practice. Rich boosters are paying kids NIL money to attend their favored university. They're not going to pay them NIL money to play in the XFL or USFL or whatever it will be called.

That booster money pales in comparison to the money coming in from Nike, Adidas, Mercedes Benz, Fanatics, etc. If you look at the top NIL guys - Bronny James, Caleb Williams, Shedeur Sanders, Travis Hunter - their NIL deals are majority corporate dollars, not booster dollars. (Livvy Dunne is an outlier in this, she’s more SM influencer vs athlete at this point).

The upper to mid tier guys (the ones you’re ultimately looking to target - your three and a half to four star guys who don’t have a famous dad) aren’t getting six figure deals from either boosters or corporate funds (or there’s some sort of ridiculous stipulation to it - ala Gervon Dexter) so if you can put together a 3/$3mm contract, you’ll have a financial offering that both exceeds current NIL deals and won’t have any clawback provisions within them.

[ET80]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

C'mon, ET. That's not how it's working in actual practice. Rich boosters are paying kids NIL money to attend their favored university. They're not going to pay them NIL money to play in the XFL or USFL or whatever it will be called.

That booster money pales in comparison to the money coming in from Nike, Adidas, Mercedes Benz, Fanatics, etc. If you look at the top NIL guys - Bronny James, Caleb Williams, Shedeur Sanders, Travis Hunter - their NIL deals are majority corporate dollars, not booster dollars. (Livvy Dunne is an outlier in this, she’s more SM influencer vs athlete at this point).

The upper to mid tier guys (the ones you’re ultimately looking to target - your three and a half to four star guys who don’t have a famous dad) aren’t getting six figure deals from either boosters or corporate funds (or there’s some sort of ridiculous stipulation to it - ala Gervon Dexter) so if you can put together a 3/$3mm contract, you’ll have a financial offering that both exceeds current NIL deals and won’t have any clawback provisions within them.

Another point to consider - majority of kids in NIL deals aren’t making six figures at ALL. Sure, your top names are (Williams, Sanders, Hunter, probably MHJ and Brock Bowers, etc). Guys who are pretty much locked into their spots, none of these guys are going to the portal (I doubt Deion is leaving Boulder and I doubt Riley is leaving SoCal). 

Per studies done by Business Insider and NBCNY, College football players earn roughly $3,400 a season on NIL deals:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/sports/one-year-of-nil-how-much-have-athletes-made/3765040/

This is factoring in deals such as the $2.5mm that Williams (a returning Heisman Trophy winner and odd on favorite to go 1.1 next draft) and $1.8mm that Sanders (the son of Coach Prime, perhaps the greatest self promoter of all time). Clearly, when I suggest the XFL/USFL poach kids from the NCAA, I’m not talking about this level of NIL funding - the cream of the crop is staying in the NCAA.

Look for the NIL guys topping out at $20-30k/season. Look for guys like Gervon Dexter who made bad NIL deals in good faith. There are plenty of kids in the sport who can look at a $75,000/year deal from the XFL/USFL and see a greater amount of money and PT in the process.

[jrry32]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

That booster money pales in comparison to the money coming in from Nike, Adidas, Mercedes Benz, Fanatics, etc. If you look at the top NIL guys - Bronny James, Caleb Williams, Shedeur Sanders, Travis Hunter - their NIL deals are majority corporate dollars, not booster dollars. (Livvy Dunne is an outlier in this, she’s more SM influencer vs athlete at this point).

The upper to mid tier guys (the ones you’re ultimately looking to target - your three and a half to four star guys who don’t have a famous dad) aren’t getting six figure deals from either boosters or corporate funds (or there’s some sort of ridiculous stipulation to it - ala Gervon Dexter) so if you can put together a 3/$3mm contract, you’ll have a financial offering that both exceeds current NIL deals and won’t have any clawback provisions within them.

Okay, but are the corporations going to want these top guys to go play in front of huge crowds for well-known programs on major TV networks or for a fledgling pro league? (Plus, some of these relationships that lead to the big money come from the schools/coaches/boosters.)

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Look for the NIL guys topping out at $20-30k/season. Look for guys like Gervon Dexter who made bad NIL deals in good faith. There are plenty of kids in the sport who can look at a $75,000/year deal from the XFL/USFL and see a greater amount of money and PT in the process.

I don't disagree. My point was that to get the attention you'd want to get, you really needed to pull some of the big-name kids. And the incentive for the big-name kids to do that is largely gone.

[ET80]

39 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

I don't disagree. My point was that to get the attention you'd want to get, you really needed to pull some of the big-name kids. And the incentive for the big-name kids to do that is largely gone.

I’m not really thinking it’s “attention” per se - more about better quality on the field. 

As someone who followed a lot of XFL pre-pandemic… it was BAD football. Sloppy routes, bad coverage, no cohesion on either line and just a lack of fundamentals. Not a shock, most of these guys were middling in college as-is; Expecting this cohort of guys who were who they were at this point in their careers to come together and play good football is asking a lot.

Hypothetically - a younger player to mold (someone who hasn’t bounced around a few PS squads, still has room to grow both physically and mentally) with a better baseline of skill and IQ could feasibly play at a higher level; Get enough of them together and you’ll have a cleaner product on the field, which will KEEP attention (as opposed to declining ratings on a weekly basis - people watch W1, but they quickly fade). 

[Drained]

21 hours ago, lavar703 said:

The NFL's developmental league is college football. 

Maybe in a technical sense but realistically if you want pro talent you need pro reps. You don't even have the same rules in college, which is cool but I'm talking NFL crucial rules like two feet inbounds.

[Drained]

4 hours ago, ET80 said:

I’m not really thinking it’s “attention” per se - more about better quality on the field. 

As someone who followed a lot of XFL pre-pandemic… it was BAD football. Sloppy routes, bad coverage, no cohesion on either line and just a lack of fundamentals. Not a shock, most of these guys were middling in college as-is; Expecting this cohort of guys who were who they were at this point in their careers to come together and play good football is asking a lot.

Hypothetically - a younger player to mold (someone who hasn’t bounced around a few PS squads, still has room to grow both physically and mentally) with a better baseline of skill and IQ could feasibly play at a higher level; Get enough of them together and you’ll have a cleaner product on the field, which will KEEP attention (as opposed to declining ratings on a weekly basis - people watch W1, but they quickly fade). 

XFL this season was leaps and bounds better. I mean, when you grab college studs that went undrafted and a bunch of late round picks you're probably gonna get play equivalent to top level college.

[Ozzy]

11 hours ago, adamq said:

The NBA has done something similar with the G League and its been very successful. They have nabbed several elite prospects to play on their developmental team rather than go play college ball

True but not sure getting rid of college football is the way to go either.  NBA can do it because they only have to be out of high school for a year, the NFL is three years, so that is totally different.  Also NBA did it to compete with foreign leagues outside the state who got highly rated high school seniors to come to their leagues instead of going to college before the G league was developed.

 

Also college football creates instant brand awareness to new players before they come into the league, that is not the issue.  The issue is development for guys who cannot get on the field when they get to the NFL but still have ability just need more snaps.  Those crap football minor leagues in America should be able to do that and it would increase the attention on those leagues if teams could sent players there and would make them far more interesting.  

[Tank4Drake]

Mightt have looked like a bad investment for The Rock, but he’s probably gonna 20x his money at some point. 

[lavar703]

1 hour ago, Drained said:

Maybe in a technical sense but realistically if you want pro talent you need pro reps. You don't even have the same rules in college, which is cool but I'm talking NFL crucial rules like two feet inbounds.

The players still wouldn’t be developed to the teams needs. It makes more sense to have your young player versed in your system in your practices with your staff.