Week 5 GDT: [MNF] McRaiders v Packers - The one where we need to smarten up

[BackinBlack]

20 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

When does it matter though? You're basically saying you want the team to lose out starting at week 5 to compete for the first pick. Hows that effect your team and star players and the team psyche. It's just not realistic imo. 

Week 12, sure... start making arrangements, but it's hard to chase that this early.

And again... I think we're all a little drunk on Williams hype here. There are several guys in this class that check the boxes for franchise QBs.  

losses against 3 teams we are in wildcard contention with, (buff, chargers, and steeler) are more impactful then a win against a NFC team. 
if we lose next week to become 1-4 in AFC, it was all for nothing i fear. 

-
I am now fully wanting them to beat NE. 1-4 vs 2-3 is a big difference early, they win and get back to 500, anything can happen. 2-4 with all 4 losses being in the afc, our tiebreakers will be a mess. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

1 hour ago, FloydFan said:

Anyone saying draft position doesn’t matter and that we need to win meaningless games when this team is obviously a dumpster fire is the reason we have watched the Raiders we have over the last two decades. 

Guys doing the drafting matters more imo than draft position. Guys like grudock would draft leatherwood #1. 

[NickButera]

24 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Guys doing the drafting matters more imo than draft position. Guys like grudock would draft leatherwood #1. 

Very much this. Draft position matters but not nearly as much as the guys doing it and player development. Guys we could have had if we drafted in hind sight: Jalen Carter, Micah Parsons, Josh Allen, Justin Jefferson, etc etc. If that was our drafting the last 4 years you can't tell me we wouldn't be in the Superbowl 

[NCOUGHMAN]

40 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Very much this. Draft position matters but not nearly as much as the guys doing it and player development. Guys we could have had if we drafted in hind sight: Jalen Carter, Micah Parsons, Josh Allen, Justin Jefferson, etc etc. If that was our drafting the last 4 years you can't tell me we wouldn't be in the Superbowl 

Yea we won’t talk about that lol 🤦🏽‍♂️
 

I used to not like reggie drafting but at least he’d trade down for his reaches.

Edited October 10, 2023 by NCOUGHMAN

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, BackinBlack said:

losses against 3 teams we are in wildcard contention with, (buff, chargers, and steeler) are more impactful then a win against a NFC team. 
if we lose next week to become 1-4 in AFC, it was all for nothing i fear. 

-
I am now fully wanting them to beat NE. 1-4 vs 2-3 is a big difference early, they win and get back to 500, anything can happen. 2-4 with all 4 losses being in the afc, our tiebreakers will be a mess. 

With you there. 1-4 felt like the wheels could come all the way off. With the win, I want to see improvement and a 3 game winning streak with Pats and Bears up next. If they lose to the Pats, then it was likely all for nothing. 

[big_palooka]

@Tank4Drake Can't help notice you're not in here talking about Jordan Love today. You been pumping him all season, what are your feelings now?

[Tank4Drake]

48 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

@Tank4Drake Can't help notice you're not in here talking about Jordan Love today. You been pumping him all season, what are your feelings now?

Optimistic, and still am, but a little more open to both outcomes for him. That was a horrific game, against a horrific defense. 

[Jerry]

On 10/9/2023 at 4:28 AM, big_palooka said:

Just sign a 8-10 sack a year DT? Who? These players are hard to come by. Hargrave is 30 and went to a contender. This is not an easy fix. You want a quality player, you either draft it or trade for one. Just signing one is not realistic. 

Chris Jones.  Javon Hargrave was one last year.  I know they are hard to come by.  Doesn't erase the fact that one was available in FA this past season and another one may hit the market.  Either way we definitely need to try to draft a DT in the first if we play ourselves out of the QBoTF picks. 

I know it sounds ridiculous.  I also know that if we get one it will transform our defense.

[Jerry]

3 hours ago, NickButera said:

Very much this. Draft position matters but not nearly as much as the guys doing it and player development. Guys we could have had if we drafted in hind sight: Jalen Carter, Micah Parsons, Josh Allen, Justin Jefferson, etc etc. If that was our drafting the last 4 years you can't tell me we wouldn't be in the Superbowl 

Calvin Johnson and Aaron Rodgers..................

We could have changed our team for a decade with just those two.  Crazy how many times we've whiffed by just a pick.  We always seem to draft the bust.  Or never retain decent/great players (Mack, Cooper, L. Murray, etc.).  Watching the Packers last night I realized half of their starters on defense used to play for us (other than DL).  Crazy how some players leave the Raiders and are now flourishing.

[true2form]

8 hours ago, justwinbaby81 said:

You're allowed to feel however you want to feel, that's up to you. We do need changes to become a legitimate contender, but changes can happen independently of these wins. I said to you in the first response that one win does not change our QB or HC strategy next year. Both can happen at anywhere between 2-8 wins. We have fired coaches at 8 wins before.

I saw strides on defense that could be sustainable long-term, that to me is very important. I think there should be more optimism today than there was yesterday based on the play on the field, let alone the win. The defense and Patrick Graham specifically. Building off of the Chargers performance on defense and then coming out and showing another good game on that side. Packers were scoring 25/game, we cut it in half despite some short fields. It resulted in a win. Based on all of that, yes I think you should be more excited with what we saw collectively the first 4 games, but you do you. I think we can win more than 6 games, but if you think there is something hindering major changes at 6 wins vs 4 wins what exactly is that? QB and HC aren't the only parts of the team, we need to see growth in a lot of areas and we saw growth in several.

This all started with you when I was calling out people hoping the Raiders lose, which I do think is BS. I never quoted you, and you responded. Hoping we lose and expecting we lose are two very different things. If you are not hoping we lose and just are expecting that we lose, don't take it personally because it wasn't directed at you. If you are hoping we lose, then do take it personally. 

You can want change and not actively hope for failure to get there.

This is where I’ll jump in. I’m not rooting for us to lose and I don’t believe anyone here is. However, I and I’m sure plenty others do not believe in this team. That’s the difference. Everyone here wants the Raiders to win 100 Super Bowls in a row(no matter how ludicrous it is).

There is a time when you have to realize that we are just not good and we are going nowhere. For me, it was before the season started. For some, it was after a couple games. Others it will be when we are eliminated from the playoffs. The point is, it will happen. 
 

We can realistically win 4 of our next 5 games and it still won’t change that. Think about that. We could be 6-4 in 5 weeks time and we will still be a bad team that is going nowhere. I know it’s depressing, but it’s the truth. 

[FloydFan]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

When does it matter though? You're basically saying you want the team to lose out starting at week 5 to compete for the first pick. Hows that effect your team and star players and the team psyche. It's just not realistic imo. 

Week 12, sure... start making arrangements, but it's hard to chase that this early.

And again... I think we're all a little drunk on Williams hype here. There are several guys in this class that check the boxes for franchise QBs.  

I would say it’s an imperfect question but I’d also say it matters now. These are wins that are going to do nothing to help this team. They can’t score over 19 points. I’m about as patient as they come administrations but this isn’t a playoff team, their QB has failed, and honestly at this point the only positive thing I’ve seen is the defense which is not McDaniels forte. It just looks bad all around and I’d for once rather see a full tank as opposed to moral victories. 

[FloydFan]

7 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Guys doing the drafting matters more imo than draft position. Guys like grudock would draft leatherwood #1. 

That’s fine and true but those guys drafting can do better with better valued picks. Especially when it comes to the QB position which we are obviously in desperate need of. 

[big_palooka]

8 hours ago, Jerry said:

Chris Jones.  Javon Hargrave was one last year.  I know they are hard to come by.  Doesn't erase the fact that one was available in FA this past season and another one may hit the market.  Either way we definitely need to try to draft a DT in the first if we play ourselves out of the QBoTF picks. 

I know it sounds ridiculous.  I also know that if we get one it will transform our defense.

There are 32 teams. Hargrave went to one with a shot at getting back to the Super Bowl. Chris Jones will be a FA this upcoming offseason and he wants Aaron Donald money.

I say this in the moment on 10/11, anything other than a QB in round 1 would feel like a letdown. That said, I completely agree with you as most would that a proper DT could change the complexion of the defense. 

Johnny Newton,  Ruke Orhorhoro and Maason Smith are those dudes in the draft.

 

[big_palooka]

6 hours ago, true2form said:

This is where I’ll jump in. I’m not rooting for us to lose and I don’t believe anyone here is. However, I and I’m sure plenty others do not believe in this team. That’s the difference. Everyone here wants the Raiders to win 100 Super Bowls in a row(no matter how ludicrous it is).

There is a time when you have to realize that we are just not good and we are going nowhere. For me, it was before the season started. For some, it was after a couple games. Others it will be when we are eliminated from the playoffs. The point is, it will happen. 
 

We can realistically win 4 of our next 5 games and it still won’t change that. Think about that. We could be 6-4 in 5 weeks time and we will still be a bad team that is going nowhere. I know it’s depressing, but it’s the truth. 

You're not wrong. This team feels lifeless. Getting wins against some of the poor teams in the league is meaningless unless you can matchup with KC, Detroit and Miami on your schedule. 

I truly hate being in the middle which looks like where this is destined to go. 

[Devilshark69]

15 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Draft position matters. Period

I remember the same arguments about needing to win meaningless games in 2018 which led to us missing out on Nick Bosa and Quinnen Williams and ending up with Clelin Ferrell instead. Can you imagine Bosa and Crosby as bookend DE’s? Or Williams and Crosby as a tandem on the DL? 

In a year where 2 generational QB’s are available I would much prefer to endure a rough season in exchange for drafting a franchise changing talent at the most important position.

It’s called long term thinking and I’m not going to have my 30+ years of fandom called into question because I am ok with delayed gratification. 

This and nick buteras post, draft position DOES matter. Yes, it’s early in the season, but beating the pats and bears would make us 4-3, yes. Does anyone believe we’re going to the playoffs at that point? I highly doubt it. 48 yrs as a fan, and I was SPOILED from 76-84, so yeah this kills my raider soul and has for 20 yrs now, so if I’m hoping FOR A HIGH ENOUGH PICK, to draft a qbof or trade up etc. don’t you flippin DARE question my loyalty. Lol. I’ve been rooting for this team since stabler and biletnikoff, half y’all weren’t even alive. I’ll repeat myself again, ITS A FORUM, WERE ENTITLED TO OUR OPINIONS!!! When posters get on their high horse (aptly named holier than thou) and come at people like they were the original die hard fan, I get a little pissed, even if they’re not posting at me directly. Last time I checked RAIDER NATION is about 85-90% DIE HARD. so people telling others to “take a break” or “go root for the saints” are wrong 100%, again, IN MY FLIPPIN OPINION!!! We ALL want a winning team, but their are differing OPINIONS about how we get there, that’s why it’s called a FORUM. Lol!!! Fwiw, if we are gonna have a few more meaningless wins (in the context of not going to the playoffs/draft position) then yes, I’d just assume they’re home games so RAIDER NATION can celebrate and these invading visitors can take their *sees home as losers!!! ☠️☠️ The ONLY exception would be playing out of our minds Xmas day at arrowhead (the best present Raider Claus could give us😈☠️😈☠️!!!!) peace out y’all!! 👍🍻🍻