2023 Week 6 Bye Week Thread 3-2 Steelers

[3rivers]

8 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

2023 steelers fans thru first 3 quarters

 

4 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

We have called this a high school offense, but in reality that’s an insult to high school offense. 

hmmn, maybe fans watching this team should be warned first.  So in essence "saturdayish" was actually a compliment.   What are we tolerating with the canada offence in 23 ? Maybe the fans at the Pens game are onto something

4 hours ago, warfelg said:

Hilarious to hear the Burgh media pear clutch over "Fire Canada" chants at the pens game.

what if this is actually a tactic of tomlin and the brass, and when needed they actually call decent plays. IOW, play terrible, lull opponents to sleep laughing  in the process, then deliver a kill shot near the end of the game. 

Consider the fact we are stuck with canada for this season, the above is  about our only hope. Then of course if this yields a winning season, just repeat next year all over again 

5 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I know this is the bye week thread but I think the Rams absolutely cream us next week. That offense is the clicking on all cylinders and they just got Kupp back and he looks healthy. Stafford is playing like he’s in his mid 20s. 

so wait until after the rams game to  replace Leavemopen Wallace with JPj? seems about right, remember we are in 1st place and can afford another loss

2 hours ago, VigilantZombie said:

I love that "Fire Canada" chants broke out at the Penguins game.

more enjoyable than watching the canada offence most of the time.  

 

[JustPlainNasty]

10 hours ago, jebrick said:

As I have seen, KP called a protection change and signaled to Pickens to change the route.  I would hope that sort of thing is build into the offense and because they ran it we must assume it is part of the game plan.  Now 2 times in the drive, Pickens caught back shoulder throws for big gains which might be why the CB thought it would be another back shoulder.  So WOW, changing the play/route has big payoffs.

Another thing that showed up in another thread, Play action.  Every time the Steelers PA the defense really REALLY bites hard but the Steelers use it very few times.  If you go back and watch Ben's rookie season, the PA on almost all of his passes.  Note to Canada, do the same thing.

I believe Matt Williamson said they use PA 12% of the time. They are 30th or 31st in the league using play action. It was one of the two things he said he would ask for or do if he could change just anything was for them to run more play action to help out the young qb. Of course it takes a little longer but it was create hesitation in the defense. 

I don't recall what the second thing was he would change off the top of my head.

Edited October 12, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[JustPlainNasty]

5 hours ago, warfelg said:

You do know when he called plays in Tampa they were universally terrible right?

I have no interest in Leftwich as a coordinator. If Tomlin wants to bring him on to help his career then whatever but he did nothing in Arizona or Tampa that said he deserved any kind of recognition as a good OC. Sorry Byron, I liked you as a Steeler but they need to move into the 21st century not the mid 80s.

Edited October 12, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[JustPlainNasty]

8 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

I know this is the bye week thread but I think the Rams absolutely cream us next week. That offense is the clicking on all cylinders and they just got Kupp back and he looks healthy. Stafford is playing like he’s in his mid 20s. 

Nacua and Kupp should feast on our corners and we’ve already proven twice this season that we have no answer for the “Shanahan” offense. McVay is going to feel like he’s playing Madden on rookie mode against Teryl Austin. 

Sucks because this was thought to be an easy W when the schedule came out. 
 

Yep i had preseason money on this and the Houston game. ugghh..not 5 bucks either...  I did not feel good going into the Houston game or else I wouldve put more on it and I know the Steelers should be about 3.5 to 4.5 road dogs going into this one and I dont feel good about chasing that either. Somehow I do think our offense will be more competetive but I dont see how our secondary keeps up with them based on what we've seen. The only hope we have there is that Stafford isnt mobile.

Edited October 12, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[3rivers]

8 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Yep i had preseason money on this and the Houston game. ugghh..not 5 bucks either...  I did not feel good going into the Houston game or else I wouldve put more on it and I know the Steelers should be about 3.5 to 4.5 road dogs going into this one and I dont feel good about chasing that either. Somehow I do think our offense will be more competetive but I dont see how our secondary keeps up with them based on what we've seen. The only hope we have there is that Stafford isnt mobile.

if Stafford lights up the secondary (very likely) it might be a catalyst for getting JPj more time or perhaps starting.  It seems like a bad way to play after a bye considering the time the coaches have to get ready for this game, but look how we were for the opener.  

Ideally they make the changes during the by, trade for a legit CB as well. Instead it will drag out and JPj will get on the field full time later than sooner and the trade  would be at the deadline IF there is even a trade.  The Surtain trade rumour  would be ideal though, just get it over with , he's proven, but the broncos won't or would they? Other teams (Bills) might want a CB as well due to injuries, and that never helps.

[warfelg]

Get mad?

[AFF]

44 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Get mad?

I’ll take your bait because I’m stupid…

Your constant need to defend Tomlin from any sort of criticism is mind boggling…the team has plateaued and there is valid flaws with Tomlin(I’ve stated them before numerous times, I’m not rehashing it).

Is he a bad HC?…no…but is he elite? IMO no.

Being afraid to make a change because you might go from average to bad is the biggest “living in your fears” Stance I could think of. 
 

Im not the smartest poster on here by any means. However Ive been on the “move on from Tomlin” train for a few years…it should say something that people who were more neutral or even more pro Tomlin have kindA changed their tune and raise valid concerns with him.

Im not trying to be a jerk but take a second to think about what I’m going to say…you’re so pro-Tomlin you refuse to see legitimate concerns with him and always pawn it off on other coaches/players etc etc etc.

I shouldn’t have been able to correctly predict they were gonna lose to the Texans and then win a tough close game to the Ravens(Harbaugh is overrated too but that’s a separate topic).

Again…im not trying to be a jerk but don’t respond to this(cause we’ve went back and forth on this before) and just think about I’ve stated.

Just some food for thought.

[warfelg]

20 minutes ago, AFF said:

Your constant need to defend Tomlin from any sort of criticism is mind boggling

How is posting a list like this defending him? Lol even I think it’s too high. 
 

Also - I’m neutral to slight pro Tomlin. I’m just against the silly reasons to firing him many people use. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by warfelg

[Dcash4]

18 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I’m neutral to slight pro Tomlin.

Look man, I am not trying to be rude or start anything on a website -- but this is the biggest lie ever told on this forum. You go to bat for him every single chance you get. Like here you shared a post of rankings with your own commentary of "get mad?". How did you expect people to take that?

[warfelg]

15 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Look man, I am not trying to be rude or start anything on a website -- but this is the biggest lie ever told on this forum. You go to bat for him every single chance you get. Like here you shared a post of rankings with your own commentary of "get mad?". How did you expect people to take that?

No this is the issue with internet discussions.  Half the nuance of what I say is gone and when I agree with criticisms it’s ignored to focus on where I disagree.  It’s more a reflection of how anti-Tomlin most of this board is.

I said it like that because Fox called him a top 3 coach.  I literally just said I don’t consider him that.  It made me “mad” too seeing him that high.  Personally on that list I would have Tomlin at 5, Carrol at 3, BB at 6 with the next few bumped down.  And here’s Sean McDermott, who I would take over Sirianni.  Why is Doug Pederson on there but not Zac Taylor?

Personally my top 10 list would go:

1 - Reid

2 - Shanahan

3 - Carrol

4 - McVay

5 - Tomlin 

6 - Belichick

7 - McDaniels

8 - Harbaugh

9 - McDermott

10 - Sirianni

[bigben07MVP]

Leftwich would be an abysmal OC hiring and would set us back another 3 years. I do not want him in the building at all. 

Plus, bringing him in right now makes 0 sense. The fan base is already rabid about firing Canada, how much worse do you think it would be if his eventual replacement and a former Steeler was brought into the building. 

[warfelg]

Like, sorry to bring something like this up but it’s crazy to me to know that Tomlin is 42% successful and challenges and the best in the NFL is McCarthy at 51% success, while the worst with a minimum of 10 challenges is 20% is seen as some big defense to dispel the notion that he’s “terrible at reviews”.

I’ve said many times Tomlin isn’t infallible. I think his “approval rating” is worst with Steelers fans because many just don’t know how bad other coaching out there is because you’re so in looking at just this team.  

I lived in the Philly area when the whole Andy Reid thing went down.  It’s very much the same as what I’m seeing happen here right now.  

 

[warfelg]

https://x.com/triggeredwise/status/1712499970497019930?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

To use a Tomlinism “one trick pony”

[Dcash4]

39 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Like, sorry to bring something like this up but it’s crazy to me to know that Tomlin is 42% successful and challenges and the best in the NFL is McCarthy at 51% success, while the worst with a minimum of 10 challenges is 20% is seen as some big defense to dispel the notion that he’s “terrible at reviews”.

Tomlin's questionable challenge status is well earned. Since 2017 he is 7 of 29 (24%). He had 4 years within that span of no challenges won during the season. Even then, it's not necessarily the issue with the won/loss record of challenges but the things he was actually willing to challenge. He has (had?) a history of challenging spot plays in the middle of the field with no line markers to judge off. It's nearly impossible to overturn those types of plays, but that red flag hit the turf enough times that it lead him to push off challenging responsibilities to Teryl Austin in the booth. 

So in the entirety of his 17 years has he been terrible at reviews? No

But within the last 8? Absolutely yes he has. After starting his career at 51% he has taken a severe drop off the cliff. 

1 hour ago, warfelg said:

I’ve said many times Tomlin isn’t infallible. I think his “approval rating” is worst with Steelers fans because many just don’t know how bad other coaching out there is because you’re so in looking at just this team.  

I lived in the Philly area when the whole Andy Reid thing went down.  It’s very much the same as what I’m seeing happen here right now.  

I know this line wasn't directed necessarily at me, but just in response -- I am fully aware of just how many bad coaches there are out there. But the other side to that coin is banging your head against a wall for the sake of continuity. 

I in no way think Tomlin is a bad coach. He is a tremendous culture builder. But IMO, culture isn't what this team needs at this stage. They need scheme dependency and development. I know this staff as a whole sucks at one of those and I am questioning the second part too. 

I am not sure why you look at the Eagles/Reid thing as a negative -- both sides of that deal ended up positively. I am hopefully that this season is finally the season Tomlin breaks away from his hiring practices and dedicates more effort to analytical thinking, but I am not holding my breath either that we won't just roll with Sullivan, Faulkner, or someone like Jim Caldwell who will turn 70 next season as the OC. I am fine with Tomlin remaining the head coach, but he needs to change ways he does business to continue to stay relevant. Jury's out after 17 years if he is willing or able to do that. 

I really hate to say this because of how whiney I find this person (and family!)...but the one person I am very envious of as a head coach is John Harbaugh. He has willingly shifted and changed directions of his staff multiple times in order to stay relevant and shift the status of the team. The Flacco offense stalled out, he went fully in on Lamar -- staff and scheme included. Wink Martindale was good but not keeping up with the top QBs of the league, so he made a shift to a college DC with more scheme flexible chops. 

I think most people here do not think Tomlin is a bad coach, but we are tired of the monotony he has carried throughout his career. I am onboard with Tomlin remaining our HC, but it comes with a caveat of accepting changes. I hope that after this season with the new GM team we can push for some of those more modern updates to the staff. But if we stay stubborn and set in our ways, then I welcome a fresh start with a new direction at the top even if that means Tomlin goes on to win multiple super bowls somewhere else. 

/walloftext

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

I know this line wasn't directed necessarily at me, but just in response -- I am fully aware of just how many bad coaches there are out there. But the other side to that coin is banging your head against a wall for the sake of continuity. 

I in no way think Tomlin is a bad coach. He is a tremendous culture builder. But IMO, culture isn't what this team needs at this stage. They need scheme dependency and development. I know this staff as a whole sucks at one of those and I am questioning the second part too. 

I know I’m picking a part here but sit down: I don’t necessarily disagree with this. Any of it. And I’ve said the multiple times  

I just have a problem with pointing to playoff losses in general and not acknowledging the challenges that happened with them. I mean the two that always stick out to me are 2011 playoffs with out top 2 RBs on IR, Aaron Smith on IR, and Ryan Clark unavailable because of syckle cell trait; then 2017 right on the heels of Shazier injury and the defense went to crap right away.

 

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

Tomlin's questionable challenge status is well earned. Since 2017 he is 7 of 29 (24%). He had 4 years within that span of no challenges won during the season. Even then, it's not necessarily the issue with the won/loss record of challenges but the things he was actually willing to challenge. He has (had?) a history of challenging spot plays in the middle of the field with no line markers to judge off. It's nearly impossible to overturn those types of plays, but that red flag hit the turf enough times that it lead him to push off challenging responsibilities to Teryl Austin in the booth.

FWIW - When Al Rivian (who took over officiating reviews at that time) took over the average success rate was 31%. I had the data somewhere at one point and I’m working on trying to find it. I did come across that success in DPI/OPI overturning with him was 19%. 
 

This was an ok article:

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/235385/dean-blandino-leaving-nfl-why-its-important-and-whats-next
 

This one was kinda damning that fellow refs thought he was bad:

https://nflmocks.com/2017/12/27/nfl-officials-even-think-al-riveron-bad-replay-reviews/
 

What I’m trying to do when I point these out is to say “it’s ok” on bad reviews Tomlin challenged, rather show that challenges in that time were rather…unsuccessful league wide. Again it’s just that understanding that likely Tomlins best way to a better record was not to challenge.

 

EDIT:

It comes down to me what do you believe of the post Killer B’s team - Is this an average roster with average coaching; is it a bad roster being pushed to .500 by a good coach; or do you believe it’s a good roster held back by bad coaching?

Edited October 12, 2023 by warfelg