Soko Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, The BILLievers said: Ed Oliver (went from good to elite, DT) Is there a single thing out there that supports Oliver being an elite player? Dude goose egged vs the amazing NYG OL, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 1 hour ago, CP3MVP said: I don’t know if they have an elite top 3 QB. see the thread for all the teams with great QBs who weren’t contenders There's 3 QBs in the NFL better than Josh Allen? Not sure I would agree with that 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 15, 2023 Author Share Posted December 15, 2023 7 hours ago, MagicMT said: There's 3 QBs in the NFL better than Josh Allen? Not sure I would agree with that What supports him being a top 3 QB this year? He’s not even in the playoffs right now with a top ten defense lol. 19th in TD to interception ratio leads the nfl in turnovers 6th in completion percentage 8th in YPG 12th in YPA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 On 10/26/2023 at 5:24 PM, CP3MVP said: Well yeah. I never viewed Ben in some amazing light anyway, he was never top 3 in the league to me. So his teams never being contenders like that in my eyes isn’t really crazy. Youre clearly way too focused on QBs and hindsight results. The overall makeups of teams are the biggest factors. From 2005 to about 2011 (because of defense), then 2015 to 2017 (offense), the Steelers were absolutely contenders. It The 2006 team would have been contenders if not for Bens motorcycle accident. The Steelers 2007 team was better than their 2004 and maybe 2005 teams. The 2004 team was a Cinderella story until they hit the playoffs. The 2009 team was every bit as good as the 2008 team, if not better. They had alot of bad timed injuries. Otherwise, they were definitely a contender. And the Packers were absolutely contenders almost every year under Rodgers. Its kinda silly to say otherwise. You could say the same about Seahawks with Wilson. Bottom line....while I get the point you are trying to make, you are dismissing alot of teams that were contenders to make your point seem stronger than it is. Josh Allen will always give them a chance. Its up to the Bills front office to put the right pieces around him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 15 hours ago, MagicMT said: There's 3 QBs in the NFL better than Josh Allen? Not sure I would agree with that Don't feed the troll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Soko said: Is there a single thing out there that supports Oliver being an elite player? Dude goose egged vs the amazing NYG OL, lol. Lmao yes he leads all DT's in the entire NFL in pressures and pressure rate this season, has been our best defender and is the reason the defense is still in the top 10 after losing Matt Milano, Tre White, and Da'Quan Jones. It is without question he has been elite this season. Not up for debate really. Edited December 15, 2023 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, CP3MVP said: What supports him being a top 3 QB this year? He’s not even in the playoffs right now with a top ten defense lol. 19th in TD to interception ratio leads the nfl in turnovers 6th in completion percentage 8th in YPG 12th in YPA Lol you are funny. 1st in the NFL in total yards. 1st in the NFL in total touchdowns. 1st in EPA out of all QBs. Does your TD to INT ratio include rushing TDs too? The Bills would be lucky to win 3 games without Josh Allen this year. EDIT: do you watch any Bills games? You keep saying this good Bills defense but they have the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL and have blown the 4th quarter lead so many times: Eagles game in OT, Broncos game, Patriots game, and almost the Giants and Bucs game. You don't know what you're talking about lol. Edited December 15, 2023 by The BILLievers 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 50 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: Lmao yes he leads all DT's in the entire NFL in pressures and pressure rate this season, has been our best defender and is the reason the defense is still in the top 10 after losing Matt Milano, Tre White, and Da'Quan Jones. It is without question he has been elite this season. Not up for debate really. PFR has him with 14 total pressures. Good for T-77th in the league. The sack numbers are solid, but not great. PFF doesn’t have him graded very highly. Chris Jones, Aaron Donald, Lawrence, Simmons…Oliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Soko said: PFR has him with 14 total pressures. Good for T-77th in the league. The sack numbers are solid, but not great. PFF doesn’t have him graded very highly. Chris Jones, Aaron Donald, Lawrence, Simmons…Oliver. He had 41 pressures after week 10 so wherever you get your stats are incorrect. Maybe 14 pressures in a game? lol. He's been elite this season no questions about it. And this is coming from someone who questioned the original contract we gave him last season. He's actually outplaying his contract this year. PFF has him T-3 with sacks out of all DT's too.. so those are great sack numbers, not just solid. Edited December 15, 2023 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 38 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: He had 41 pressures after week 10 so wherever you get your stats are incorrect. Maybe 14 pressures in a game? lol. He's been elite this season no questions about it. And this is coming from someone who questioned the original contract we gave him last season. He's actually outplaying his contract this year. PFF has him T-3 with sacks out of all DT's too.. so those are great sack numbers, not just solid. Pressures are a subjective stat, unlike passing yards or sacks. PFR’s pressures are not any less valid than NGS’ pressures. ESPN’s PBWR has him at 13th among interior guys, and that’s with the second lowest double team percentage of the top 20. It does have Oliver 5th in run stop win rate, however, which is a surprise. Pressures withstanding, 6.5 sacks makes you an elite player? Interesting take. Dude hasn’t been even consistently good let alone elite for any portion of his career until now, and even then, a pretty big stretch to call him an elite football player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Soko said: Pressures are a subjective stat, unlike passing yards or sacks. PFR’s pressures are not any less valid than NGS’ pressures. ESPN’s PBWR has him at 13th among interior guys, and that’s with the second lowest double team percentage of the top 20. It does have Oliver 5th in run stop win rate, however, which is a surprise. Pressures withstanding, 6.5 sacks makes you an elite player? Interesting take. Dude hasn’t been even consistently good let alone elite for any portion of his career until now, and even then, a pretty big stretch to call him an elite football player. Interesting take? What are you even talking about? How is he not an elite DT this season if he is top 5 in run stop win rate, top 5 in QB pressures and top 5 in sacks? 5th in run stop win rate, 1st in QB pressures, 1st in pressure rate, and T-3 out of all DT in sacks. You do understand that DT's don't typically have high sack numbers? The only DT's with more sacks than Oliver are Madubuike, Chris Jones, and Christian Willkins. EDIT: I'm not saying he's one of the elite DT's yet. I'm saying he has 100% been an elite DT this year and a top 5 DT. Edited December 15, 2023 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 30 minutes ago, The BILLievers said: EDIT: I'm not saying he's one of the elite DT's yet. I'm saying he has 100% been an elite DT this year and a top 5 DT. There lies the distinction. We’re having two separate discussions. Although I’ll throw out there; being “top 5 in sacks among DTs” doesn’t mean those are elite numbers. Like, if every WR in the league barely reached 1,000 yards receiving, but Gabe Davis reached 1,050 - I wouldn’t call those elite numbers or an elite season. That’s why 6.5 isn’t really “WOW, elite production” to me, but I guess that’s a personal preference. NGS has his pressures high, PFR’s doesn’t, I wonder what PFF has? I don’t have a subscription there, but if they give him plus points for an uptick in run defense, then u can’t imagine they’re crediting him much with pressures based on his PFF grade (66). Shrug. It’s a pretty down year for interior DL, compared to the dominance that we’ve been seeing from Donald, Jones, Simmons, Lawrence, and Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 13 hours ago, CP3MVP said: What supports him being a top 3 QB this year? He’s not even in the playoffs right now with a top ten defense lol. 19th in TD to interception ratio leads the nfl in turnovers 6th in completion percentage 8th in YPG 12th in YPA 5 hours ago, The BILLievers said: Lol you are funny. 1st in the NFL in total yards. 1st in the NFL in total touchdowns. 1st in EPA out of all QBs. Does your TD to INT ratio include rushing TDs too? The Bills would be lucky to win 3 games without Josh Allen this year. EDIT: do you watch any Bills games? You keep saying this good Bills defense but they have the worst 4th quarter defense in the NFL and have blown the 4th quarter lead so many times: Eagles game in OT, Broncos game, Patriots game, and almost the Giants and Bucs game. You don't know what you're talking about lol. I'm dumbfound someone would base an argument off the stats he provided than completely neglect the other stats. Confirmation bias at its finest! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The BILLievers Posted December 15, 2023 Share Posted December 15, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WizeGuy said: I'm dumbfound someone would base an argument off the stats he provided than completely neglect the other stats. Confirmation bias at its finest! Lol he's always hated Josh Allen and been negative about him. Reminds me of Bill Simmons and they have one thing in common. Edited December 15, 2023 by The BILLievers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted December 16, 2023 Author Share Posted December 16, 2023 (edited) On 12/15/2023 at 1:50 AM, 43M said: Youre clearly way too focused on QBs and hindsight results. The overall makeups of teams are the biggest factors. From 2005 to about 2011 (because of defense), then 2015 to 2017 (offense), the Steelers were absolutely contenders. It The 2006 team would have been contenders if not for Bens motorcycle accident. The Steelers 2007 team was better than their 2004 and maybe 2005 teams. The 2004 team was a Cinderella story until they hit the playoffs. The 2009 team was every bit as good as the 2008 team, if not better. They had alot of bad timed injuries. Otherwise, they were definitely a contender. And the Packers were absolutely contenders almost every year under Rodgers. Its kinda silly to say otherwise. You could say the same about Seahawks with Wilson. Bottom line....while I get the point you are trying to make, you are dismissing alot of teams that were contenders to make your point seem stronger than it is. Josh Allen will always give them a chance. It’s up to the Bills front office to put the right pieces around him. Claiming teams that missed the playoffs or got knocked out in round 1 were “absolutely contenders” is laughable though lol. I completely disagree on the 2006 Steelers too. I think they are the 5th best team in the AFC even when healthy. It should be noted that the next year with no accident they lost at home in the wildcard round to the Jags. Some contender lol Edited December 16, 2023 by CP3MVP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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