Do you think the Bills current window is closed?

[squire12]

59 minutes ago, Soggust said:

didn't have a ~ .500 year prior to winning a SB?

I would argue that being patient with your head coach is absolutely the recipe to succeed.
 

  Reveal hidden contents

22 Chiefs - After winning 2020 SB, the Chiefs "went the wrong direction" the next two years by losing the SB embarrassingly and then losing in the AFCCG. 

21 Rams - McVay goes 9-7 after losing in the 2018 SB. He then goes 10-6 with a playoff win, then goes on to win the SB.

20 Bucs - Arians went 7-9 before getting Brady. Say what you want about Brady showing up, but Arians was an integral part of that SB success. 

19 Chiefs - Andy Reid had a TWENTY year history of "not being able to get it done" prior to 19. He figured it out. 

17 Eagles - Pederson goes 7-9 in his first year (Arians style) after the team went 7-9 the year prior with Chip Kelly.

15 Broncos - Kubiak comes in, wins the SB. He leaves after going 9-7 and the team hasn't hit 9 wins since. 

14 / 16 / 18 Pats - Bill went 10 years without winning one, but let's be real he was never in jeopardy lol.

13 Seahawks - Carroll had two 7-9 seasons prior to winning the SB. 

Got bored after this

 

Now find the HC and QB combo's that were together 5 or more years before they won their first super bowl.

[Soggust]

 

21 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Do we know it was McDermott that was the main coaching reason for the deep playoff runs?  Or was it Daboll as OC?

13-3 without Daboll suggests McDermott is at least partially responsible to me. 

 

19 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Now find the HC and QB combo's that were together 5 or more years before they won their first super bowl.

This is such a niche stat.

But I don't think it means we need to fire Josh Allen =p

[Soko]

2 hours ago, Duluther said:

Lazy analysis. Randall Cunningham was 35 when he had arguably his best season. All of Michael Vick's best years (not just highlight reels) were in his 30's. Steve Young put out HOF tape until 37. Backyard Brett was Josh Allen before Josh Allen and he lasted to 40. Fran Tarkenton, the OG modern QB runner, played until he was 38. Jeff Garcia, a great pocket scrambler, played until 38. People also said Big Ben wasn't going to last long and he played until 39; he lasted longer than the two other near HOF QB's in his class who were pure pocket passers (Rivers and Eli). Even Donovan McNabb's lazy *** lasted as a starter up to 35. The longest-lasting journeyman currenty in the NFL is Tyrod Taylor (34) who is in part a runner.

What running QB's didn't last long specifically because they took a beating due to their style? Culpepper... who had the same injury Tom Brady and others get from in the pocket? Was Chad Pennington, the most often injured QB ever, a runner? Was Drew Brees so safe as argaubly the most pure-pocket passer in recent memory - the man who can't throw a football anymore due to injuries? Has Lamar Jackson, the most prolific running QB ever, been hurt running or in the pocket (answer: in the pocket)? He's sure going to last a long longer than his Louisville counterpart - pocket passer Teddy Bridgewater. Who lasted longer: the pocket passer Troy Aikman or the next great Dallas QB, the backyard football playing Tony Romo (Answer: Tony Romo)? Which top 2 Jaguars QB lasted 9 years longer than the other: scrambler Mark Brunell or pure pocket-passer Byron Leftwich (answer: Brunell)? For every Cam Newton (played well until 32), there is a pocket passer whose duration matches.

You have no data to back up your claim. Sit down and stop spouting nonsense into circulation. We're all dumber for it. 

How’re you going to say that’s lazy and then say half of that crap? 

Steve Young took over when he was ~30 years old, still missed a bunch of games, and never ran the ball as many times as Allen. His career high was 76 times. Allen’s career low was 89 when he missed 4 games, and is up to 62 this year. Every other year was 100-125ish carries. Playing to 37 (while missing games) is less impressive when you barely play until 30 years old.

Vick? He had a resurgent year at 30 years old (having essentially not played in the prior three seasons) and routinely missed time both in Atlanta and in Philly (including that single good season he had). He’s an awful example for you, because he not only got hurt all the time but his body broke down after starting 75% worth of games over a two season stretch (after taking three years off). Him and Josh basically had the same amount of carries when comparing their first six years. 

Brett Favre took a ton of punishment as a passer but didn’t run it nearly the same, stop it. Neither did Big Ben. Neither did Tarkenton. Neither did Garcia. Like, are we just naming non-statuesque QBs at this point? Talk to me when they’re pulling it 120+ times a season. 

Tyrod is another dumb example, because A) he doesn’t take nearly as much punishment as a career backup, and B) he also can’t stay healthy. Complete miss on this frame job. 

It doesn’t require much thinking to surmise that more hits = more wear, and more hits = more chances of injury. We’re going to talk about Big Ben (not a runner), Tyrod Taylor (a runner, but a backup), and Josh Allen (runs it a lot full time) in the same breath? What a joke.

[Ray Reed]

33 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Now find the HC and QB combo's that were together 5 or more years before they won their first super bowl.

John Harbaugh/Joe Flacco won the SB in their 5th season together 

[squire12]

13 minutes ago, Soggust said:

This is such a niche stat.

But I don't think it means we need to fire Josh Allen =p

From a financial perspective, 1 is far easier to replace vs the other.

[Duluther]

4 minutes ago, Soko said:

How’re you going to say that’s lazy and then say half of that crap? 

Steve Young took over when he was ~30 years old, still missed a bunch of games, and never ran the ball as many times as Allen. His career high was 76 times. Allen’s career low was 89 when he missed 4 games, and is up to 62 this year. Every other year was 100-125ish carries. Playing to 37 (while missing games) is less impressive when you barely play until 30 years old.

Vick? He had a resurgent year at 30 years old (having essentially not played in the prior three seasons) and routinely missed time both in Atlanta and in Philly (including that single good season he had). He’s an awful example for you, because he not only got hurt all the time but his body broke down after starting 75% worth of games over a two season stretch (after taking three years off). Him and Josh basically had the same amount of carries when comparing their first six years. 

Brett Favre took a ton of punishment as a passer but didn’t run it nearly the same, stop it. Neither did Big Ben. Neither did Tarkenton. Neither did Garcia. Like, are we just naming non-statuesque QBs at this point? Talk to me when they’re pulling it 120+ times a season. 

Tyrod is another dumb example, because A) he doesn’t take nearly as much punishment as a career backup, and B) he also can’t stay healthy. Complete miss on this frame job. 

It doesn’t require much thinking to surmise that more hits = more wear, and more hits = more chances of injury. We’re going to talk about Big Ben (not a runner), Tyrod Taylor (a runner, but a backup), and Josh Allen (runs it a lot full time) in the same breath? What a joke.

Yes, let’s create a new rule to explain away every example. You sound like a fake moon lander.

Running QB doesn’t automatically equate to more hits. QB’s get hit in the pocket, and the Manningcast just this year had two QB’s say that pocket hits are worse than running hits.

How often do you see QBs who run get hit? They almost always execute their slide. 

If he is going to dictate that running QBs have shorter careers, they better be able to back that up. 

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

I guess I just wonder if the next guy not only gets you further than McDermott, but also does all the things that he did to get you guys there in the first place. 

And if the next coach isn't better, what's the cost to Allen's career being a team that's continually cycling through coaching staff.

If I'm Buffalo, I think I'm more inclined to reward the homie who's gotten us 4 great seasons with 4 playoff wins by giving him grace on an underwhelming mediocre season.

But again - maybe the answer is simply "yes I think they will because he's that obviously been that much of a problem". I'm just playing madden here I don't watch them weekly lol.

I don't think McDermott is the biggest problem in Buffalo. To me their struggles drafting are the reason they've taken successive steps back, and I don't personally know enough to know how much of that is McDermott or Beane or others.

But, all the reasons you've given for keeping him sound a LOT like the reasons teams find themselves in QB purgatory. What if the next guy is worse? We've done well so far with this guy. We're competitive every year already. This is how you wind up with Ryan Tannehill or Kirk Cousins. Just the head coach version.

100% you could get worse cutting that guy loose. But if your goal is to win a superbowl (and it should be with Allen), you can't risk settling, either. Maybe you wind up being the Chargers, trading Schottenheimer for Turner, and not really changing anything. Maybe you wind up being the Broncos dumping John Fox and winning it the next year. Can't really know for sure. But you don't want to wait until things bottom out fully to move on, either. At that point, you're wasting even more years.

[Jakuvious]

21 minutes ago, Duluther said:

How often do you see QBs who run get hit? They almost always execute their slide. 

Part of the criticism with Allen is that he doesn't, though. He hurdles guys, lowers his shoulder, etc. It isn't just that he runs, but how he does it.

[Duluther]

7 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Part of the criticism with Allen is that he doesn't, though. He hurdles guys, lowers his shoulder, etc. It isn't just that he runs, but how he does it.

Ok. I agree with that. But that wasn’t that poster’s statement. They claimed that running QB’s don’t have long lasting careers due to injuries.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Duluther

[Trentwannabe]

3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I don't think McDermott is the biggest problem in Buffalo. To me their struggles drafting are the reason they've taken successive steps back, and I don't personally know enough to know how much of that is McDermott or Beane or others.

But, all the reasons you've given for keeping him sound a LOT like the reasons teams find themselves in QB purgatory. What if the next guy is worse? We've done well so far with this guy. We're competitive every year already. This is how you wind up with Ryan Tannehill or Kirk Cousins. Just the head coach version.

100% you could get worse cutting that guy loose. But if your goal is to win a superbowl (and it should be with Allen), you can't risk settling, either. Maybe you wind up being the Chargers, trading Schottenheimer for Turner, and not really changing anything. Maybe you wind up being the Broncos dumping John Fox and winning it the next year. Can't really know for sure. But you don't want to wait until things bottom out fully to move on, either. At that point, you're wasting even more years.

Beane is definitely the guy making the call in the draft room. The criticism for the drafting is fair. However, I will say these last two years look very promising so far (Elam being the biggest blunder so far)

2022
James Cook - starting RB likely to eclipse 1k
Terrell Bernard - starting MLB in year 2 and has been better then Edmunds 
Khalil Shakir - starting slot. Been really good since Knox went down and they ran more 11
Christian Benford - starting CB 

2023
Dalton Kincaid - blossoming into a star 
O’Cyrus Torrence - starting RG and looks the part 
 

Jury still out on Dorian Williams and Justin Shorter at this time 

[Soggust]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

I don't think McDermott is the biggest problem in Buffalo. To me their struggles drafting are the reason they've taken successive steps back, and I don't personally know enough to know how much of that is McDermott or Beane or others.

But, all the reasons you've given for keeping him sound a LOT like the reasons teams find themselves in QB purgatory. What if the next guy is worse? We've done well so far with this guy. We're competitive every year already. This is how you wind up with Ryan Tannehill or Kirk Cousins. Just the head coach version.

100% you could get worse cutting that guy loose. But if your goal is to win a superbowl (and it should be with Allen), you can't risk settling, either. Maybe you wind up being the Chargers, trading Schottenheimer for Turner, and not really changing anything. Maybe you wind up being the Broncos dumping John Fox and winning it the next year. Can't really know for sure. But you don't want to wait until things bottom out fully to move on, either. At that point, you're wasting even more years.

I would respectfully argue that you sound like the early 00s Browns who drafted a new QB every year trying to strike gold haha. 

Again - if we're addressing a problem (guy can't do X, Y, or Z and isn't likely to improve), then I agree.

But when we are talking about "hey we don't really know whose fault the drafting is, so let's just try something new", then I don't think you are addressing a problem - I think you are playing the lotto. 

It's ironic you mention the Broncos, because Kubiak won the super bowl, left after a 9-7 season and they haven't even been that good since. Notably because finding good coaches isn't easy.

[Jakuvious]

18 minutes ago, Soggust said:

I would respectfully argue that you sound like the early 00s Browns who drafted a new QB every year trying to strike gold haha. 

Again - if we're addressing a problem (guy can't do X, Y, or Z and isn't likely to improve), then I agree.

But when we are talking about "hey we don't really know whose fault the drafting is, so let's just try something new", then I don't think you are addressing a problem - I think you are playing the lotto. 

It's ironic you mention the Broncos, because Kubiak won the super bowl, left after a 9-7 season and they haven't even been that good since. Notably because finding good coaches isn't easy.

To be clear, I don't know who the drafting issue is the fault of. The Bills certainly should. I'm not suggesting they should try firing random people because they can't possibly know who the problem is. I'm saying from the outside, I couldn't tell you.

Also, the Browns took 5 first round QBs in about 25 years. The problem was not that they kept picking QBs. The problem was that they kept picking QBs that sucked. That's not an argument for not trying to find a QB, though. Is your suggestion that they should have stopped drafting QBs because it wasn't working? Like, I don't get the point you're making, there.

[Danger]

27 minutes ago, Trentwannabe said:

Jury still out on Dorian Williams and Justin Shorter at this time 

Shorter is a poor man's Dorial Green-Beckham

[Soko]

53 minutes ago, Duluther said:

Yes, let’s create a new rule to explain away every example. You sound like a fake moon lander.

Running QB doesn’t automatically equate to more hits. QB’s get hit in the pocket, and the Manningcast just this year had two QB’s say that pocket hits are worse than running hits.

How often do you see QBs who run get hit? They almost always execute their slide. 

If he is going to dictate that running QBs have shorter careers, they better be able to back that up. 

It’s not a new rule. Most of the QBs you mentioned are just incomparable to Allen, in terms of how often they run it. Vick was the only QB you mentioned that’s in that category - he broke down in his early 30s, was injury prone all throughout his 20s, and had 2-3 seasons of “rest”. That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement for your argument. 

Who are the QBs that were running it 100, 125 times per season (or even close to that) that had long careers? Russ is probably the closest (even he ran it less than Josh) and he was actually known for being smart about sliding/running out of bounds - something Allen is notorious for not doing often enough. Dude runs into contact, he’s closer to Cam in that respect. 

[sammymvpknight]

3 hours ago, Duluther said:

Lazy analysis. Randall Cunningham was 35 when he had arguably his best season. All of Michael Vick's best years (not just highlight reels) were in his 30's. Steve Young put out HOF tape until 37. Backyard Brett was Josh Allen before Josh Allen and he lasted to 40. Fran Tarkenton, the OG modern QB runner, played until he was 38. Jeff Garcia, a great pocket scrambler, played until 38. People also said Big Ben wasn't going to last long and he played until 39; he lasted longer than the two other near HOF QB's in his class who were pure pocket passers (Rivers and Eli). Even Donovan McNabb's lazy *** lasted as a starter up to 35. The longest-lasting journeyman currenty in the NFL is Tyrod Taylor (34) who is in part a runner.

What running QB's didn't last long specifically because they took a beating due to their style? Culpepper... who had the same injury Tom Brady and others get from in the pocket? Was Chad Pennington, the most often injured QB ever, a runner? Was Drew Brees so safe as argaubly the most pure-pocket passer in recent memory - the man who can't throw a football anymore due to injuries? Has Lamar Jackson, the most prolific running QB ever, been hurt running or in the pocket (answer: in the pocket)? He's sure going to last a long longer than his Louisville counterpart - pocket passer Teddy Bridgewater. Who lasted longer: the pocket passer Troy Aikman or the next great Dallas QB, the backyard football playing Tony Romo (Answer: Tony Romo)? Which top 2 Jaguars QB lasted 9 years longer than the other: scrambler Mark Brunell or pure pocket-passer Byron Leftwich (answer: Brunell)? For every Cam Newton (played well until 32), there is a pocket passer whose duration matches.

You have no data to back up your claim. Sit down and stop spouting nonsense into circulation. We're all dumber for it. 

Trends aren’t lazy…outliers are