2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[Sugashane]

36 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

👆🏻who would/could even fault us for keeping JF AND taking a qb  ??? 

 This seems like the very best option bc it protects us from either guy busting  !

JF will NOT be an attitude problem ever, a high level rook behind him will only push JF to be his  VErY best 

Fields alelready has spoken like he knows he has a chance to be elsewhere next year. He's never said he wanted to mentor his replacement. In year 13, sure. He'd probably mentor but he isn't handing over his position even then. Going into year 4? He's either the guy or gone.

If Poles spends 1.1 on Williams and benches him for the guy he is trying to replace then he's gone before the end of the season. Warren might not be doing a ton on football Ops but he's not dealing with that. Either you draft a new QB or you use 1.1 on tools to support Fields (drafting help or trading down for more picks). Those are the only options realistically.

[CBears019]

48 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

we need to get this straight. there are a ton of options, but there is no situation where we have JF and a #1 QB on the roster together. not only would it SEVERLY impact the amount of reps both guys get with a new OC, it would also fracture the locker room. it's 1 or the other, not both

And it would alienate both QBs.  You could expect a trade demand from fields before the draft ends, and you could also have Williams not signing his rookie contract.  It’s kind of like the old adage, if you have 2 QBs, then you really have none.

[Madmike90]

I see you boys had some fun without me hahaha...

I am not going quote every post but a could of things that stand out...

The tribalism over Fields vs. Caleb needs to stop man...like I get having a strong opinion but it is possible to like both options without having to rubbish one or the other...like Fields is one of the worst 5 QBs in the league? C'mon let's not be silly now...I can want us to build the team rather than just drop a QB into another poor situation but I can also respect the fact Caleb is a great prospect...

My question was simply what separates Caleb from the likes of Murray or Mayfield? And if Caleb was to have the same sort of production as those two at their best in the pros would it be worth passing up all those picks? That is not some slight on Caleb...it is a genuine question and so far the answers have been less than stellar..."Williams is bigger & stronger than both guys"...Mayfield is list at the exact same 6-1" 215lbs (and I don't believe Williams is that big)...if anything I am looking for someone to change my mind on my stance...

I will say I love the fact Caleb is working with Rich Scangarello given his back ground in this scheme...also would have no issue at all with Scangarello as a QB coach long term...plenty of experience there...

I don't love the reports he might not hire a certified agent...that is a red flag for me...

But again people need to get away from thinking that there is one completely right answer and one completely wrong one...the NFL changes way too fast for that.

[SLCbear]

1 hour ago, StLunatic88 said:

I dont know if you are trolling here, or if you honestly believe that this matters, but I promise you it doesnt. Fields wont be the one that needs to say anything, although no one would fault him if he did after the team takes a guy at #1.

But David Mulugheta will not let this situation ever come to pass

You love the word trolling ha ha 

 So it's unrealistic or 'fantasy land' bc of David ******* Mulugheta ??!? HoWw ?

 AND

 practice reps ??

anything else ????? anything ?? Bueller ? 

Why is Poles open to it if it unrealistic or fantasy ??

 I don't want to argue, I just want to hear one reason WHy this cannot, should not ever work. I want to get off this option but simply cannot bc it probably is the best option

 

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

we need to get this straight. there are a ton of options, but there is no situation where we have JF and a #1 QB on the roster together. not only would it SEVERLY impact the amount of reps both guys get with a new OC, it would also fracture the locker room. it's 1 or the other, not both

 

1 hour ago, BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW said:

Um.  Not sure how "half in" gets defined from your point of view,  but the situation you describe is pretty much what it looks like to be half in on a QB. 

I'm not half in, I am wait and see ! we can control JF for 4more years, and any rookie we draft for 7. JFs career will be ending in about 7yrs 

We hold ALL the cards. Find out in predraft interviews what each qb thinks of being on roster with Fields.

 Why must we only replicate what's already been done  ?? 

 

[SLCbear]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Fields alelready has spoken like he knows he has a chance to be elsewhere next year. He's never said he wanted to mentor his replacement. In year 13, sure. He'd probably mentor but he isn't handing over his position even then. Going into year 4? He's either the guy or gone.

If Poles spends 1.1 on Williams and benches him for the guy he is trying to replace then he's gone before the end of the season. Warren might not be doing a ton on football Ops but he's not dealing with that. Either you draft a new QB or you use 1.1 on tools to support Fields (drafting help or trading down for more picks). Those are the only options realistically.

Just just opining and not giving any clear reasons why this CANNOT  ev work  

41 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

And it would alienate both QBs.  You could expect a trade demand from fields before the draft ends, and you could also have Williams not signing his rookie contract.  It’s kind of like the old adage, if you have 2 QBs, then you really have none.

possible trade demand from players who have no say for 4 and 7 yrs respectively ?? and not that you  couldn't weed this out in predraft interviews 

 

[SLCbear]

31 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

But again people need to get away from thinking that there is one completely right answer and one completely wrong one...the NFL changes way too fast for that.

Finally, somebody making some sense around here  ha ha 

Edited January 15 by SLCbear

[StLunatic88]

16 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

Just just opining and not giving any clear reasons why this CANNOT  ev work  

You’ve been given the reasons. They are very obvious. You just don’t like the answers 

[SLCbear]

 

16 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

You’ve been given the reasons. They are very obvious. You just don’t like the answers 

Obvious ???

mulugheta and practice reps ?

 

 

Edited January 16 by SLCbear

[BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW]

Hey guys let's cool this debate down a bit here, let's talk politics! Religion?

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, SLCbear said:

 

Obvious ???

mulugheta and practice reps  is all I've been given so far 

I don’t know how more obvious they can be than those two MASSIVE issues.

you really want to split reps between two guys who by your own admission can’t both be on the same roster long term? That is just nonsensical

And before we even get to that harmful situation to both players development, neither set of representatives for those players would ever allow that to happen. Caleb Williams would never sign his rookie contract until Fields was traded and Fields would never take another rep in a Bears uniform because he could only decrease his value with the injury risk.And you have harmed your relationship with both players, maybe irrevocably

This is a business, and that would be bad business for everyone involved. You would have fractured your locker room for absolutely no reason, you would more than likely tank your trade value (only praying for a contenders QB to go out for the season) and all for what? Your reasoning for wanting to try this doesn’t even make any sense. You have to pick one of these paths and follow it to the end.

I was wrong before, there isn’t only one way to be wrong about this; you can think there is an “obvious” answer, or you think you can try this approach…

[refundmytickets]

I'm not sure how much Williams (or any QB prospect) could even learn from Fields. He's a unique player who does stuff Williams will never replicate. If you want to help Williams adjust to the pro game, sign Joe Flacco or some other vet.

Having 2 guys will destroy the locker room. Those guys are loyal to Fields right now. If you draft Williams and keep Fields, you put Williams in a horrible situation.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, SLCbear said:

Just just opining and not giving any clear reasons why this CANNOT  ev work 

That's like saying KC CAN get better because Mahomes and Jones could just accept minimum contracts so they can stack the teams around them. It hasn't been proven that it CANNOT work, but common sense prevents you from needing to bother asking them.

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

I don’t know how more obvious they can be than those two MASSIVE issues.

you really want to split reps between two guys who by your own admission can’t both be on the same roster long term? That is just nonsensical

And before we even get to that harmful situation to both players development, neither set of representatives for those players would ever allow that to happen. Caleb Williams would never sign his rookie contract until Fields was traded and Fields would never take another rep in a Bears uniform because he could only decrease his value with the injury risk.And you have harmed your relationship with both players, maybe irrevocably

This is a business, and that would be bad business for everyone involved. You would have fractured your locker room for absolutely no reason, you would more than likely tank your trade value (only praying for a contenders QB to go out for the season) and all for what? Your reasoning for wanting to try this doesn’t even make any sense. You have to pick one of these paths and follow it to the end.

I was wrong before, there isn’t only one way to be wrong about this; you can think there is an “obvious” answer, or you think you can try this approach…

95% of these concerns could/would be weeded out in the pre-draft process 

 Caleb Williams is not the ONLY qb in this Draft 

One training camp of splitting reps is not going to be a harmful situation for player development, esp when JF is undisputed starter lmao

 Is it IDeAL to spit reps ? NO. Will splitting reps in a Rookie's very 1st TC stunt a Rookie's development ? Of course not

Why does the lockerroom HAVE to become fractured bc there are 2 high-level QBs on same roster ? Both are UNPROVEN and JF is undisputed starter. We maintain continuity and momentum from this past season w JF, and the  Rookie is not thrown into the NFL fire. Chicago  QBs haven't exactly fared very well here  ever 

 Poles didn't shut it down, Michael Lombardi even talked some about doing this, taking it one step at a time and only making a move when absolutely necessary; letting it all play out. 

 

[SLCbear]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

That's like saying KC CAN get better because Mahomes and Jones could just accept minimum contracts so they can stack the teams around them. It hasn't been proven that it CANNOT work, but common sense prevents you from needing to bother asking them.

.

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, SLCbear said:

Why does the lockerroom HAVE to become fractured bc there are 2 high-level QBs on same roster ? Both are UNPROVEN and JF is undisputed starter. We maintain continuity and momentum from this past season w JF, and the  Rookie is not thrown into the NFL fire. Chicago  QBs haven't exactly fared very well here  ever 

A few things:

-In your scenario, if Fields is unproven (which he is in many regards) then why would he be the undisputed starter? If they think little enough of Fields at present that they’re using the first pick in the draft on one of if not the highest graded QB prospects in the past several years, are they not doing so because they’ve concluded that Fields didn’t warrant the benefit of the doubt in anything for 2024 and because, at minimum, they want to challenge him to earn the right to keep his starting role moving forward? What other reasonable explanation could there be? (That’s rhetorical - there isn’t one)

-If they are convinced Fields is or will soon be a high level QB (whatever that means to them) then they don’t need Williams. Williams adds negligible value to the roster if he’s not playing, and getting negligible value from a 1st overall pick is a death knell for a GM and coaching staff, especially when they’re already under fire for the lack of success in their respective tenures to this juncture.

-Other than Fields being still here in your hypothetical, there’s very little continuity for us on offense. The only offensive staff that aren’t already changing are the OL coach and TE coach, and I’m not even convinced they’ll stay once the new OC gets hired. Every QB on the roster will be learning a new offense and playbook from scratch. Every receiver who matters other than DJ and Kmet is likely to be replaced or at least bumped down the depth chart significantly. We’re almost certain to have a new center (and probably 2 new centers) from whom our QBs will be taking their snaps. Frankly, it’d be hard to get much less continuity on offense than we’ll be looking at in 2024 whether or not we draft Williams.