2024 Draft Debate and Discussion

[AZBearsFan]

 

The part I highlighted is the stuff that frustrates me most about the Fields/Williams debate. “If the Bears get talent around him…”. The inference here from Robert is that they don’t have what would be enough talent around him now for him to be set up for success here.

If that’s the case for Williams then why is it not also the case for Fields? Why is it okay to say we would need to put more talent around Williams, but with Fields it’s “he doesn’t elevate those guys around him,” as though DJ Moore and Cole Kmet didn’t both just have the best years of their careers? 

[Bigbear72]

13 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

 

The part I highlighted is the stuff that frustrates me most about the Fields/Williams debate. “If the Bears get talent around him…”. The inference here from Robert is that they don’t have what would be enough talent around him now for him to be set up for success here.

If that’s the case for Williams then why is it not also the case for Fields? Why is it okay to say we would need to put more talent around Williams, but with Fields it’s “he doesn’t elevate those guys around him,” as though DJ Moore and Cole Kmet didn’t both just have the best years of their careers? 

This has been my issue with this argument all season. You can't say let's draft another qb but make sure we bring in talent to support him and not support that argument for Fields. Either we have enough talent here or we don't. To ignore the limitations of the offensive roster and coaching staff is mind-blowing to me. I'm not saying that Fields is perfect by any stretch of the imagination and if we are moving on then so be it. But to think that the roster is good enough for another qb to prosper is head scratching.

[Epyon]

From my perspective the issue with continuing to try and build around Fields is simply time related. 

The staff has already blown their window to make it work on time with Fields. They blew that when they dedicated most of their efforts towards fixing the defense and basically none of their offensive moves paid off, save Darnell Wright. We had to have the answer by the end of the season, and we either got a no or I don't know, but either way it wasn't a clear and resounding yes. 

So all in all I don't see any issue with acknowledging that the offense still needs work (and frankly a TON of it) for Caleb, because it's the same work that they should have done but failed to accomplish for Fields to give him a fair shot. Life isn't always fair sometimes. 

[Bigbear72]

54 minutes ago, Epyon said:

From my perspective the issue with continuing to try and build around Fields is simply time related. 

The staff has already blown their window to make it work on time with Fields. They blew that when they dedicated most of their efforts towards fixing the defense and basically none of their offensive moves paid off, save Darnell Wright. We had to have the answer by the end of the season, and we either got a no or I don't know, but either way it wasn't a clear and resounding yes. 

So all in all I don't see any issue with acknowledging that the offense still needs work (and frankly a TON of it) for Caleb, because it's the same work that they should have done but failed to accomplish for Fields to give him a fair shot. Life isn't always fair sometimes. 

But is timing more important than getting it right? We are still, much more than likely, going to have to wait for a qb to develop. I think that because fans have seen a few players come into the league and take it be storm somehow makes them now believe that will be the norm as opposed to the exception. I know the argument will be "but then you have to pay Fields." My counter to that is so what. It has been noted that not every contract is created equal. There are out clauses and loopholes in most. And quite frankly, just because a player reaches his 5th year option does not mean that we automatically have to sign him to some recordbreaking deal. Honestly, why can't they sign him to a decent deal on a shorter term? That may be beneficial to both sides? 

Edited January 9 by Bigbear72

[Sugashane]

51 minutes ago, Bigbear72 said:

Honestly, why can't they sign him to a decent deal on a shorter term? That may be beneficial to both sides? 

Still have the franchise tag available after the 5th year too. So he doesn't really have leverage until then. He could refuse to sign until he gets a clause added that he cannot be franchise tagged again, someone did that last offseason I believe. But otherwise his rights are owned by Chicago.

I could see a deal being made that forgoes the 5th year option and has an option for the next year too. Something fully guaranteed for both years if the option is accepted that hovers between what he'd make in the 5th year and franchise tag. Idk if Fields would do it but have seen nothing to indicate he wouldn't either.

[anonymousGM]

3 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Well the Bears don't have a 2 but regardless that's high for me. maybe in round 3?

Maybe if we trade fields to the falcons for their 2nd

[anonymousGM]

The thing is with Fields is not about his play, its about money. He will obviously benefit from us taking MHJ and keeping him in the offense with an upgraded o-line. But, next season when he demands a mega deal that puts us in a tough spot. If Caleb Williams has a good offseason and gels with poles and the coaches leading up until the draft you have to take him. We will likely not be picking #1 again for a long time.

If Fields thinks he's getting top 5 QB money after he throws for 4000 yds and has 40 total touchdowns and turns in 1 great season I would move off of him. If his agent can agree that no matter what happens next season that he won't be getting more than the Josh Allen contract than we go all-in on Fields. This is a financial decision for Poles and the agents will be heavily involved.

Many QB's could play behind a good o-line with MHJ and DJ Moore and likely a few more added weapons. The Packers were hamstrung by the Aaron Rodgers contract in the later years when they could not put any big names around him and never made it to another super bowl, and history is beginning to repeat itself with the Mahomes deal in KC where if they don't make a run this season they will be hamstrung by that contract moving forward. 

[anonymousGM]

The clock is ticking on Lamar Jackson in Baltimore. He has to get a super bowl this year or next before his contract balloons... Resetting the QB clock in this day and age is massively important and maximizing the QB's rookie deal is imperative

[anonymousGM]

Looking at other sports that are salary-cap centric. The day the Blackhawks signed Kane and Toews to the top-tier long term deals the end of the book for the Blackhawks was written, but at the time nobody realized this

[HuskieBear]

1 hour ago, anonymousGM said:

Looking at other sports that are salary-cap centric. The day the Blackhawks signed Kane and Toews to the top-tier long term deals the end of the book for the Blackhawks was written, but at the time nobody realized this

the blackhawks downfall was Bowman constantly selling any and all resources he had for years to chase something that was out of reach and he was unable to see that. 

[anonymousGM]

1 hour ago, HuskieBear said:

the blackhawks downfall was Bowman constantly selling any and all resources he had for years to chase something that was out of reach and he was unable to see that. 

Yes, but they didn't have the cap space to keep young talent in the pipeline. They had to be traded away to get paid or else the player would leave for nothing. The Hayes kids didn't even want to play for the team. Money is the first motivator, everything else comes second, which is why I see the Fields decision as a financial one and not a talent one

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Hypothetically, as long as Fields will sign a top-10 starter contract and not a top-5  record breaking one we should be fine. Hopefully it doesn't get too ugly with a holdout next offseason. 

The Bears are in such a great place with cap space I just don't want to see them mess it up 😅

Jaylon Johnson is gonna get anywhere from 18-22 m's this offseason they are not gonna let him walk since they need draft capital for offense. Lets just call it 4yr/80 60 guaranteed

Fields next offseason will accept 5yr/225 150 guaranteed (hopefully)

Ideally we address interior o-line in free agency or a trade and draft the bigger money position via the draft like WR,T,DE

I'm of the opinion that Braxton Jones isn't a long term answer at LT, as I was last offseason when I wanted Paris Johnson Jr. So maybe swap Jones with a team that needs a tackle for a veteran center?

trading back for Marvin Harrison or Joe Alt seems like the consensus based on a salary cap perspective. WR depth in the draft could come into play because we can trade back from 9 again and still draft a big-bodied receiver in the late first or early second. I'm looking at the big board and there are 4-5 guys over 6'2 that are projected late day 1-day 2 picks!!!

Edited January 9 by anonymousGM

[dll2000]

4 hours ago, anonymousGM said:

Maybe if we trade fields to the falcons for their 2nd

I have been doing that in mocks.  It hurts that they fired the staff that he balled out against since they would have a more favorable view of him.

He definitely didn't help his trade value much in last game.

[AZBearsFan]

4 hours ago, anonymousGM said:

If Fields thinks he's getting top 5 QB money after he throws for 4000 yds and has 40 total touchdowns and turns in 1 great season I would move off of him.

If Fields is our QB next year and he goes for 4000 passing yards and 40 total TDs there’s a better chance that the McCaskeys write me into the will than that we’d move on from him. 

[Epyon]

6 hours ago, Bigbear72 said:

But is timing more important than getting it right? We are still, much more than likely, going to have to wait for a qb to develop

What in the last 3 years gives you any hope that you've "gotten it right"? 

As for having to wait to develop a QB.... That's just the reality of our situation, because even if you keep Fields, you haven't yet developed him at all. He's the same exact qb now he was 3 years ago.... It just looks less pathetic because the talent around him has taken astronomical leaps up from rock bottom. You're either keeping Getsy for jf1, or swapping OCs and starting over offensively, no matter who the qb is. 

This is what I'm talking about when I say you're out of time. The earliest time you can expect anything good out of this offense now is 25....and that's also how many millions you have to pay Fields to see it (and that's if he agrees to play on a 5th year contract). By 26 you have to start paying Poles draft picks that hit (and he's actually been drafting well) or drafting replacements to keep costs controlled. Which means you can't afford to be drafting in the teens in 2-3 years if Fields busts (and again there's literally no evidence he's anything but a bust at this point, whether that's our fault, his fault, or everyone's), because the cost to trade back up to replace him will cripple your franchise right as you need money to pay people you actually have developed and/or draft picks to replace them. 

As I said above, you needed an answer on Fields THIS YEAR. Whether you think that answer was "no" or "I don't know", it sure as hell wasn't a clear and resounding "yes", and you don't have time to keep waiting around for it. 

Edited January 9 by Epyon

[Sugashane]

8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

If Fields is our QB next year and he goes for 4000 passing yards and 40 total TDs there’s a better chance that the McCaskeys write me into the will than that we’d move on from him. 

Be changing your username to Virginia'sBoyToy next season?