Week 14: VIKINGS (6-6) at Raiders (5-7)

[vike daddy]

7 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said:

exactly why I don't know how you walk away from this game thinking there is an obvious answer at QB going forward.

i don't think there's a clear cut, obvious answer to be had at this point. it's a choice between two soft choices, each with flaws.

[vikesfan89]

1 hour ago, Dolmonite26 said:

PFF, which is known for having a very strict definition for drops, credits the Viking's receivers with 6(!) Drops.

That is completely inexcusable, and exactly why I don't know how you walk away from this game thinking there is an obvious answer at QB going forward.

Dobbs was not good at all in this game, but how do you honestly evaluate him with those drops? How?

I'm sure Mullens will have his moments of ineptitude but to me it looked like he was a lot quicker to make decisions and just let it rip with more confidence

[Dolmonite26]

1 minute ago, vikesfan89 said:

I'm sure Mullens will have his moments of ineptitude but to me it looked like he was a lot quicker to make decisions and just let it rip with more confidence

Absolutely.

Here's part of the thing for me tho, what is our recollection of Dobbs performance if all of those drops are catches and as a result, idk let's say he drives them to 3 FGs throughout the game?

Obviously that's not a great performance and plenty of Vikings fans would have something to say about, "this pass here and that sack here"

But we would also remember a clutch throw to Nailor at the end of the half that put them in FG range with a chance for touchdown.

Now flip it and say Hockenson drops the tipped ball from a Mullens or the pass where Mullens throws it behind Nailor, what if this time it's tipped to an int?

I know I'm being a bit ridiculous and at this point I'm not even sure why I've chosen to die on the Josh Dobbs hill (I don't think he's good and don't really care if he plays again). However, I just find it interesting how most of us intellectually know these things would have impacted the game and colored our impressions differently, but we still come away looking at the stats and telling the coach to put the guy in street clothes.

What I'm curious about is this: KOC said he wanted to pick the QB who maximized Jefferson, we also know that throughout the week the gameplan was centered around Jefferson. With all of that, O'Connell thought Dobbs was the one who best optimized JJ. The two of them were starting to figure out...something... before JJ goes down. Does KOC stand by his assessment if Jefferson can play Saturday?

.... I need a drink

[vike daddy]

27 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said:

.... I need a drink

yeah. some guys are starting to overthink this thing.

ee can play what ifs forever. or we can watch the Vikings play the hands they're dealt.

[Dolmonite26]

16 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

yeah. some guys are starting to overthink this thing.

ee can play what ifs forever. or we can watch the Vikings play the hands they're dealt.

"Some guys" 

😉

[GermanVike]

From the small sample size, I'm thinking Hall is the best QB of all three remaining QBs.

Whether that is the benefit of the small sample or of real skill remains to be seen.

[CriminalMind]

16 hours ago, Sir Fobos said:

Dobbs walked into a new, complex offense that relies heavily on timing. However cerebral Dobbs is, intelligence alone is not a substitute for practice and repetition. It took Cousins more than a season to become comfortable in KOC's system, and Cousins has a superior arm to run that system. Due to the rapid way the situation unfolded in MN, Dobbs has struggled with the timing and has largely been limited to buying time with his feet and improvising, on top of his personal limitations. Once defenses zeroed in on containing him and forcing him to quickly hit WRs from the pocket, he ceased being productive and the offense faltered to its current state. If Dobbs could better sync with the WRs (which takes time to develop), this trend would reverse. I think that's what KOC anticipated, at least incrementally, and is probably why he was willing to keep Dobbs on the field so long. Dobbs' intelligence and athleticism might have justified the risk.

Edited to add: The WRs haven't done Dobbs any favors lately. I can't remember a time when receivers killed so many drives with dropped passes.

It would be interesting to see what Dobbs could do with an offseason to build a rapport with the WRs. But that experiment is likely over.

I agree with this is why KOC should take ALOT of blame for the 2 losses. There is absolutely no way Dobbs would succeed if they kept the complex offense as the scheme. Everyone could see Dobbs was throwing behind WRs consistently, everyone could see he was not driving the ball down the field (for the most part). 

If KOC is an offensive master how does he not realize that. It took Kirk one year, surely Dobbs can’t do it in 2 weeks. Over the last month what we’ve seen is KOC be inflexible to change, to best fit what ur players can do. And that is not a good sign moving forward. 

[SemperFeist]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

Over the last month what we’ve seen is KOC be inflexible to change, to best fit what ur players can do. And that is not a good sign moving forward. 

This is just a ridiculous statement. O’Connell has made a ton of changes to his offense over the course of this year to adjust to personnel changes/injuries.

[JDBrocks]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

I agree with this is why KOC should take ALOT of blame for the 2 losses. There is absolutely no way Dobbs would succeed if they kept the complex offense as the scheme. Everyone could see Dobbs was throwing behind WRs consistently, everyone could see he was not driving the ball down the field (for the most part). 

If KOC is an offensive master how does he not realize that. It took Kirk one year, surely Dobbs can’t do it in 2 weeks. Over the last month what we’ve seen is KOC be inflexible to change, to best fit what ur players can do. And that is not a good sign moving forward. 

did you ever stop to think that it's much easier to ask 1 player to adapt to a scheme than it is to change an entire offense for 1 player that isn't all that great to begin with?

[wcblack34]

20 hours ago, swede700 said:

When Dobbs has the 3rd highest grade on your offense after that performance, that shows you what kind of day it was...

 

Oliver...

 

Ok. Now I'm done  

[wcblack34]

1 hour ago, CriminalMind said:

I agree with this is why KOC should take ALOT of blame for the 2 losses. There is absolutely no way Dobbs would succeed if they kept the complex offense as the scheme. Everyone could see Dobbs was throwing behind WRs consistently, everyone could see he was not driving the ball down the field (for the most part). 

If KOC is an offensive master how does he not realize that. It took Kirk one year, surely Dobbs can’t do it in 2 weeks. Over the last month what we’ve seen is KOC be inflexible to change, to best fit what ur players can do. And that is not a good sign moving forward. 

This is certainly a take made from words. 

[Buffalo Viking]

18 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

KJ, Addison, and Hock have all dropped multiple catchable passes that have been drive killers. Dobbs has issues with ball placement, but at some point your playmakers have to make... plays, right? KJ is going to be looking for a new deal, Hock got elite TE money, Addison is a first round pick that has shown #1 WR flashes. Dobbs is a career backup. You'd expect the talented skill guys to show case their talent and pick up the rest of the offense.

Not to make excuses for Addison and Hockenson, because obviously they should be making more plays. But Dobbs got their best play maker back, he made a great catch and immediately got hurt and knocked out of the game due to how poorly the ball was thrown. So yes the play makers need to make more plays but I feel the key problem comes back to Dobbs and his inaccuracy and timing issues. If they hope to salvage anything from this season they can't wait for Dobbs to build chemistry with the receivers this year because it won't matter if they're eliminated from the playoffs by that time. And I don't see Dobbs being a long term option at QB so it's not like they're building chemistry for next year.

[JDBrocks]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Viking said:

Not to make excuses for Addison and Hockenson, because obviously they should be making more plays. But Dobbs got their best play maker back, he made a great catch and immediately got hurt and knocked out of the game due to how poorly the ball was thrown. So yes the play makers need to make more plays but I feel the key problem comes back to Dobbs and his inaccuracy and timing issues. If they hope to salvage anything from this season they can't wait for Dobbs to build chemistry with the receivers this year because it won't matter if they're eliminated from the playoffs by that time. And I don't see Dobbs being a long term option at QB so it's not like they're building chemistry for next year.

I think we're mostly in agreement. I just think I expect more from our playmakers based on how good they are and have been vs Dobbs' career performance. Dobbs missing plays is expected. Skill players not capitalizing on the plays that are there to be made isn't, at least for me.

[vike daddy]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo Viking said:

Not to make excuses for Addison and Hockenson, because obviously they should be making more plays. But Dobbs got their best play maker back, he made a great catch and immediately got hurt and knocked out of the game due to how poorly the ball was thrown. So yes the play makers need to make more plays but I feel the key problem comes back to Dobbs and his inaccuracy and timing issues. If they hope to salvage anything from this season they can't wait for Dobbs to build chemistry with the receivers this year because it won't matter if they're eliminated from the playoffs by that time. And I don't see Dobbs being a long term option at QB so it's not like they're building chemistry for next year.

please post more often!

[Dolmonite26]

1 hour ago, JDBrocks said:

I think we're mostly in agreement. I just think I expect more from our playmakers based on how good they are and have been vs Dobbs' career performance. Dobbs missing plays is expected. Skill players not capitalizing on the plays that are there to be made isn't, at least for me.

This