2024 Edge Talk

[Scoundrel]

Would love to hear some opinions on the edge class… there are no blue chip guys in this class and all have concerns. Definitely can be some productive players but wondering other peoples thoughts. 

Does Verse’s age cause anyone concern?

Latu’s medicals?

Chop Robinson’s lack of production especially in big games?

Dallas Turner’s reckless play style? 

Should JT Tuimoloau bulk up and kick inside? 

[BetterCallSaul]

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Would love to hear some opinions on the edge class… there are no blue chip guys in this class and all have concerns. Definitely can be some productive players but wondering other peoples thoughts. 

I think it's a dud of a class.

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Does Verse’s age cause anyone concern?

Ehhh not so much the age. I don't like it, but I think he'll be fine. He's a good "Robin" to a "Batman."

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Latu’s medicals?

I know nothing about them. I'm more worried about his lack of freak traits. He doesn't do anything at a level that leads me to believe that he'll overwhelm NFL OT's.

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Chop Robinson’s lack of production especially in big games?

He's a pure speed rusher. Boom or bust.

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Dallas Turner’s reckless play style?

I'm more worried about his consistent production. He is not consistently productive despite having plenty of opportunities to shine in 1-1's.

17 hours ago, Scoundrel said:

Should JT Tuimoloau bulk up and kick inside? 

No. He is my favorite EDGE of the 1st round guys based purely on value. He is gonna be like Tuli Tulipulotu. He isn't a great athlete. He isn't overly strong, but he overwhelms tackles with his array of pass rush moves and hustle. I think again, he's a great "Robin" to a Batman.

 

 

I don't like this edge rusher class. I think there is a large chunk of "Solid NFL players" in the 1st round and then....not much else. Kam Butler is intriguing outside of R1, but that's the one dude I've identified so far (very early) that I think has some upside outside of R1.

 

 

 

What about Bralen Trice? I tihnk he's just as good as any of these dudes, if not better.

 

I don't think he's in any way an EDGE player in the NFL, but Brandon Dorlus is my #1 DL in the class, only rivaled by Kris Jenkins. I think he's got crazy upside as a 3-4 DE/4-3 UT. He reminds me a bit of Chris Jones.

[INbengalfan]

9 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

I don't think he's in any way an EDGE player in the NFL, but Brandon Dorlus is my #1 DL in the class, only rivaled by Kris Jenkins. I think he's got crazy upside as a 3-4 DE/4-3 UT. He reminds me a bit of Chris Jones.

Then where do you have Newton?  Behind both of those or further down?  He screams a Geno Atkins type to me (has the production, but smaller than NFL norms)

[BetterCallSaul]

18 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

Then where do you have Newton?  Behind both of those or further down?  He screams a Geno Atkins type to me (has the production, but smaller than NFL norms)

Right behind them two. I don't think "superstar" with Newton. I think he's going to be a very solid interior who can do a bit of everything as a 4-3 DT. 

 

Ranking the 1st round DL:

 

DT:

#1: Brandon Dorlus----Oregon (77)
#2: Kris Jenkins----Michigan (76)
#3: Jer'Zhan Newton----Illinois (74)
#4: Leonard Taylor----Miami (71)

 

DE:

#1: Jared Verse----Florida State (75)
#2: J.T. Tuimoloau----Ohio State (73)
#3: Bralen Trice----Washington (72)
#4: Chop Robinson----Penn State (72)
#5: Laiatu Latu----UCLA (72)

[BetterCallSaul]

I know he's not an EDGE, but

Leonard Taylor is such a weird case. His tape is more dominant than anyone's in the class...if you look at highlights. If you look at lowlights, he's an UDFA. He plays the game like Robert Nkemdiche--just an absolute berzerker who doesn't know how to play with hands or technique, but is a vicious and disruptive presence. He will be useful, but I'm not sure if he'll ever be a 3-down starting IDL because of his wreckless style of play. Certain schemes will love him while others will probably have them off their board. All upside.

[Scoundrel]

50 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

What about Bralen Trice? I tihnk he's just as good as any of these dudes, if not better.

I view him as solid… lack of bend is a concern but he plays with a boat load of effort

[CWood21]

6 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

I don't like this edge rusher class. I think there is a large chunk of "Solid NFL players" in the 1st round and then....not much else.

Very much agree with the first part, but not completely sold on the 2nd part.  I think this draft class is going to have a LOT of players stick in the NFL, just not as high impact players.  You're probably going to see a lot of guys tap out as low-end #2 EDGE, high-end #3 EDGE.

[BetterCallSaul]

12 hours ago, CWood21 said:

You're probably going to see a lot of guys tap out as low-end #2 EDGE, high-end #3 EDGE.

Who? I’m not disagreeing, just curious who I should look deeper into. Jack Sawyer (potential) and Kam Butler (pass rush toolbox) are the only two I see as intriguing right now. Wilcox from Kentucky has tools…and the Rutgers kid whose name escapes me has very raw talent. 

[Ozzy]

18 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Right behind them two. I don't think "superstar" with Newton. I think he's going to be a very solid interior who can do a bit of everything as a 4-3 DT. 

 

Ranking the 1st round DL:

 

DT:

#1: Brandon Dorlus----Oregon (77)
#2: Kris Jenkins----Michigan (76)
#3: Jer'Zhan Newton----Illinois (74)
#4: Leonard Taylor----Miami (71)

 

DE:

#1: Jared Verse----Florida State (75)
#2: J.T. Tuimoloau----Ohio State (73)
#3: Bralen Trice----Washington (72)
#4: Chop Robinson----Penn State (72)
#5: Laiatu Latu----UCLA (72)

To me there is almost no way Dorlus goes ahead of Newton or that Newton is not the #1 DT taken easily.  Newton has more pass rushing potential than any DT in the class easily and if that is what a team wants he will easily go first.  And if one wants potential and upside Tyleik Williams could be a 1st round pick, he flashes big time athletic skills for a big dude and pass rush potential, I would take him over Leonrad Taylor all day long, same with Michael Hall Jr.  

 

 

And at DE, I would be shocked to see Tuimoloau go ahead of Latu, in no way this season has he been better, Latu has dominated in some big times games and has more upside and potential unless teams are scared of his injury history and retiring from football for that little bit.  Also where is Jonah Elliss, he is right up there with those top guys if he declares, dude has a motor.  Tuimoloau was great against Penn State but he was the year before also, against Michigan in the big game with a some what down Michigan OT group, Tuimoloau was pretty invisible.  

 

[BetterCallSaul]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

To me there is almost no way Dorlus goes ahead of Newton or that Newton is not the #1 DT taken easily.  Newton has more pass rushing potential than any DT in the class easily and if that is what a team wants he will easily go first.  And if one wants potential and upside Tyleik Williams could be a 1st round pick, he flashes big time athletic skills for a big dude and pass rush potential, I would take him over Leonrad Taylor all day long, same with Michael Hall Jr.  

Newton will go before Dorlus. I think Dorlus ends up becoming a superstar though...I think he becomes a better player.

I need to do way more film study on Tyleik Williams and Michael Hall.

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

And at DE, I would be shocked to see Tuimoloau go ahead of Latu, in no way this season has he been better, Latu has dominated in some big times games and has more upside and potential unless teams are scared of his injury history and retiring from football for that little bit.  Also where is Jonah Elliss, he is right up there with those top guys if he declares, dude has a motor.  Tuimoloau was great against Penn State but he was the year before also, against Michigan in the big game with a some what down Michigan OT group, Tuimoloau was pretty invisible.  

Don't even know who Jonah Elliss is.

 

Tuimoloau has played very well in some very big moments this year. I haven't watched a ton of Latu, but he was relatively invisible when I did watch UCLA...which was sparingly. I watched some of his tape last year, as I thought he was going to be declaring for the 2023 draft at one point. That's where 90% of my opinion of him was formulated.

[Ozzy]

2 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Newton will go before Dorlus. I think Dorlus ends up becoming a superstar though...I think he becomes a better player.

I need to do way more film study on Tyleik Williams and Michael Hall.

Don't even know who Jonah Elliss is.

 

Tuimoloau has played very well in some very big moments this year. I haven't watched a ton of Latu, but he was relatively invisible when I did watch UCLA...which was sparingly. I watched some of his tape last year, as I thought he was going to be declaring for the 2023 draft at one point. That's where 90% of my opinion of him was formulated.

Tuimoloau had 6 TFLs and 4 sacks this year on arguably the deepest DL in the nation behind probably only Florida State.  

 

Latu had 21 TFLs and 13 sacks and 2 INTs and 2 forced fumbles with a talent group around him but not as talented as Ohio State arguably, and it is not even close on the backend with the DB comparison which Ohio State is stacked ta DB.  

 

Tuimoloau is talented but has never really took his game to the next level or his production.  Unlike Latu who has been dominating all season, look at what he did against a guy who could be a 1st or 2nd round pick possibly at LT.  

 

 

Latu has showed up more in big games than Timoloau no question about it.  Take those Penn State games the last two years out of Tuimolau's career and it seems pretty limited honestly.  

 

 

As for Jonah Ellis, he is the son of Luther Elliss and his brothers have been solid football players and Jonah could be the best of them, great pass rusher with a super high motor.  

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

Take those Penn State games the last two years out of Tuimolau's career and it seems pretty limited honestly.  

So he has shown up against a player who has been considered a top 5 prospect all season in Olu Fashanu? I’ll take that. 

[Ozzy]

7 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

So he has shown up against a player who has been considered a top 5 prospect all season in Olu Fashanu? I’ll take that. 

Very true but you think Olu follow JT around?  He did not and he did not line up against him constantly.  If I was to guess he lined up more against Wallace on the other side and took advantage of him instead.  Either way he is ridiculously limited in terms of production outside of the two Penn State games this year and last year which were his two best games the past two seasons arguably, no question last year it was the best game of his career in 2022.  

Why is he so hot and cold as a player if he is so dominating of a talent?  Fact is he is not dominating and is very inconsistent depending on the matchup.

[Scoundrel]

21 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Very true but you think Olu follow JT around?  He did not and he did not line up against him constantly.  If I was to guess he lined up more against Wallace on the other side and took advantage of him instead.  Either way he is ridiculously limited in terms of production outside of the two Penn State games this year and last year which were his two best games the past two seasons arguably, no question last year it was the best game of his career in 2022.  

Why is he so hot and cold as a player if he is so dominating of a talent?  Fact is he is not dominating and is very inconsistent depending on the matchup.

You tend to put so much weight on college production that you tend to underrate some guys in your rankings each year. I watched both games against PSU. When he faced against Olu he put in work.

[Ozzy]

48 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

You tend to put so much weight on college production that you tend to underrate some guys in your rankings each year. I watched both games against PSU. When he faced against Olu he put in work.

True, then why did he not put in work the rest of the games he played?  And you got any stats on exactly how often he faced him anyway?   Because especially in 2022 he was against Wallace a ton?  If he beats the best LT in college football, why cannot he beat the bad ones and totally destroy them?  

 

Production does matter, and sure one will not always get sacks like Chop Robinson didn't and Trice didn't but to me they showed out way more and impacted the game more consistently than JT did this year if one looks at every single game.