2023 GDT Week #15 7-6 Steelers vs. 7-6 Colts

[bigben07MVP]

https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1735340614839914705?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

ELITE numbers. Let’s give him 8 carries and 3 targets this week 🙄

[warfelg]

https://x.com/steelersdepot/status/1735395829752713514?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

[warfelg]

https://x.com/alex_kozora/status/1735394812432617971?s=46&t=xd5QJpZuXv2k7qD0xqd6aA

[AFF]

7 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1735340614839914705?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

ELITE numbers. Let’s give him 8 carries and 3 targets this week 🙄

I do think you need to keep his touches down to an extent to keep his efficiency up.

He should be getting 15-18 touches a week.

[3rivers]

9 hours ago, bigben07MVP said:

https://x.com/ihartitz/status/1735340614839914705?s=46&t=qcRuXjH2St1oLeP8Aph7Og
 

ELITE numbers. Let’s give him 8 carries and 3 targets this week 🙄

see what they do in these last few games.  No idea what to expect

maybe GP getting routes in the 5 yard range , maybe dionte gets 2x as many targets as everyone else

tomlin wastes TO's

cole  has a few bad snaps

 

[JustPlainNasty]

9 hours ago, 3rivers said:

see what they do in these last few games.  No idea what to expect

maybe GP getting routes in the 5 yard range , maybe dionte gets 2x as many targets as everyone else

tomlin wastes TO's

cole  has a few bad snaps

 

Every snap that the QB has to lower his head and body to retrieve the ball is a bad one in my opinion, and thats pretty much every snap.

Edited December 15, 2023 by JustPlainNasty

[warfelg]

1 hour ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Every snap that the QB has to lower his head and body to retrieve the ball is a bad one in my opinion, and thats pretty much every snap.

This is why I love football so much. Ultimate team sport of 11 acting as 1. 

[Steeler Hitman]

22 hours ago, 3rivers said:

https://steelersnow.com/steelers-name-new-starting-linebacker-blake-martinez/

Quote

some changes made but these won't have a major effect considering Benton already had a fair amount of playing time, and the KR probably is a lateral move while CA3 is trying to hang on to a roster spot.

I love your passion and football prowess 3rivers, but where is the objectiveness from the fans?  If there are no changes they say, "Tomlin isn't doing anything!" When the OC gets fired they say, "It isn't Tomlin, it was AR2!" When they insert Martinez because M. Walker is getting  abused in coverage, "It's too late and not enough!" We (fans) are starting to sound like the media. Let's be objective. I know you and many want Tomlin gone, but to get that to happen everything doesn't have to be anti-Tomlin. He will decide his own fate these final four games. I am trying to get "objective" feedback that can help make an informed decision on whether I will either continue to feel, that Tomlin can still help this team with new components or it is time for him to go. But I want to make an informed and honest assessment and not let the emotions of bad losses and his other opportunities force me to only see that.

CA3 is in the same position as GP.  These guys need someone to get them the ball and pass routes that are deeper than two or three yards.

They need to make more changes such as QB and getting GP much more involved . But it's safe to say tomlin will keep mitch at QB until KP can return.  

They are not going to make an immediate QB change unless Mitch falters again. Mason is rusty as well and the team would be in the same place with Mason not getting first team reps. Where I think Mason could be a help is as a in-game replacement.  The spark that is sometimes needed. As fans we seem to have short memories. We wanted Mason benched. This is the same Mason who couldn't beat the Lions in his last start. The same things we are saying about Mitch we said about Mason. Be careful what we wish for. We need a healthy Kenny right now.

C would be something to consider if cole has bad snaps and misses blocks, but once again I doubt tomlin makes that change unless he is forced to.  These last few games would be a way to evaluate Herbig or Anderson at C though, but I doubt it happens.

There is no one on the roster better. If there were, they would have made that change sooner. Mason has stepped back, but if Herbig or Anderson was ready to replace him, I think that they would.  I agree that things may have to get worse before that happens.

Maybe cole is the C next year as well?

He may be on the roster, but not your first choice as a starting Center based on everything. The team went out and got interior OL's the past two years. I think they get a free agent and draft a center next year.

GP better get more receptions and some that are down the field a ways. That route chart for him was painful to look at, I can't imagine how he felt out there running those plays as well as having Mitch ignore him. 

The interim OC'S team is extremely limited. They are stuck with the old playbook. I think that they could have changed if this happened last off season. Even if Canada was let go the bye week, they would have been stuck with his playbook/scheme. I think the team is stuck in the muck and mire of it, and how the OC's could improve this is tweak some of the things in it. Example: Turn some of those two yard routes into five yard routes. The behind the LOS passing needs to go. Use the middle of the field. Use your players better; Dionte a good route runner and Pickens a better deep threat. Use them in those roles.

How is the colts run defence and  interior pass rush? I know Buckner is good, but will our interior be able to provide decent pass pro for mitch?

Colts have historically matched up well with our OL'S. We have not run well against them the past several years before last year.  Buckner is a huge concern.  They have gotten good ILB play from Ziare Franklin.   The Steelers have to execute their game plan and stay on point. The pre snap penalties (especially not covering the TE Chuks).  Despite how bad things are, Mitch scored more points than Kenny has been consistently (18).  He has to not turn the ball over (or can't more than once).

 

3 hours ago, 43M said:

Between our reluctance to take shots downfield, our INABILITY to throw deep and our WRs looking really meh under Frisman Jackson, I'm not ready to write him off.

Excellent point. This is also where the coaching staff needs revamped. He was replacing a legend at WR Coach.  The talent is there. They could use another veteran or stud, but have a decent nucleus in GP, Dionte, and CA3. Are they being utilized properly. GP running three - five yard routes. C'mon man.

I still think he can be an asset....but if the offense isn't completely overhauled soon, they may as well just trade him.   I'm sure some team would be intrigued enough by his speed to throw us a 4th or 5th for him.

Why just give up on a guy? Why not look at the why he isn't producing.🤷‍♂️ The offensive system is horrible. The QB play has not been much more than average to below average. The routes and passing game itself are a joke. Look at Pickens production last game on five catches.🤬

This offense needs an overhaul in the scheme. It needs to come up to the 21st century so to speak. They have weapons, but must use them the right way.  Example: A 12 gauge shotgun with a slug is not good for squirrel hunting. A 30.06 is great for hunting deer, but not as good at hunting larger game. That is an analogy of the Steelers offense.  They have a gun cabinet and it has some weapons. They could use some additional weapons, but also must use the right weapons the right way. Many have been saying this for a while. Big Ben is gone and truthfully, the team didn't support him well at the end of his tenure with scheme (playing like he was the Big Ben of 2015 and 2016 his last few years.

[Steeler Hitman]

On 12/13/2023 at 8:32 PM, rlon said:

Is there a less inspiring player on the team than Patrick Peterson? Everything he says just sounds like a has been going through the motions because that is what he thinks he should say. Hang ‘em up bro. No one is listening to you…

I too, was very critical of Patrick Peterson early on. He made some statements and comments that made me shake my head at times. Then his play was not up to what it was last year early on (I am not even going to say six or seven years ago). I will say that I have seen much better on field play and he seems to be very respected on the defensive side of the ball.  He is not an issue on the team.

I think that today's athletes that have come up on social media and having everything put in the spot light.  The level of accountability, the money made by today's athlete $$$$, and overall attitudes are different. I grew up watching (understanding football) at the end of Mike Ditka and **** Butkis eras and the early Steel Curtain development. Football and athletes were different. It was even different during the Blitzburgh Era. Could you imagine these players playing with them or Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, and Rod Woodson? 

One good thing about some of the young Steelers is that they are getting adversity tested and developed. As much talk has been about Mike Tomlin, I am curious to see how Najee Harris, Kenny Pickett, Pat Freiermuth, George Pickens, and others respond to the in season adversity and grow now and into next season.  Regardless of the OC, HC, and all of the other potential changes, etc., What are the leaders on the offensive side of the ball going do moving forward?  There are Cams, TJ's, Minkah's and Patrick Peterson's on defense.

The latest is how the Colts game is a playoff game. Take your cliches and go to Washington with Tomlin next year. Fabricated passion is not passion at all. 

It is real what you feel. The thing is a lot of players don't have the love and passion of the fans. It is a job to them and this is a part of our lives, entertainment, etc.  We go to games, go watch them practice, follow them on websites, listen to podcasts and watch videos of the team.  We want players that have that same love.  Fan is short for "fanatic." A fanatic is a person with an excessive passion or zeal towards something.  We would like to see or feel that exhibited from more of our players.  There is something proud and good to be a Steelers fan and part of Steelers Nation. We wonder how some of the players don't get that? Steelers fans are not the run in the mill football fan. We may not boo Santa as the Eagle's fans do, but we are every bit as passionate about my team.

 

 

On 12/13/2023 at 11:48 PM, bigben07MVP said:

Peterson had a rough start to the season but has played dramatically better lately. He’s not the problem in the secondary.

See above for my comments on Patrick Peterson.  I agree 100% with this. He is also not the problem or a disruption/problem on the team.  I do not agree with a lot of the social media stuff. I realize that I am in a different generation and came up much different with regards to football and life for today's athletes.

[jebrick]

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

 

Why just give up on a guy? Why not look at the why he isn't producing.🤷‍♂️ The offensive system is horrible. The QB play has not been much more than average to below average. The routes and passing game itself are a joke. Look at Pickens production last game on five catches.🤬

This offense needs an overhaul in the scheme. It needs to come up to the 21st century so to speak. They have weapons, but must use them the right way.  Example: A 12 gauge shotgun with a slug is not good for squirrel hunting. A 30.06 is great for hunting deer, but not as good at hunting larger game. That is an analogy of the Steelers offense.  They have a gun cabinet and it has some weapons. They could use some additional weapons, but also must use the right weapons the right way. Many have been saying this for a while. Big Ben is gone and truthfully, the team didn't support him well at the end of his tenure with scheme (playing like he was the Big Ben of 2015 and 2016 his last few years.

Which is one of the reasons I would look at Troy Walters (Bengals WR coach)  OC after the season.  Bengals WR are always ready.

[3rivers]

4 hours ago, JustPlainNasty said:

Every snap that the QB has to lower his head and body to retrieve the ball is a bad one in my opinion, and thats pretty much every snap.

good point JPN.

have a watch of the play where mitch threw the INT at the end of the pats game, the 4th and 2.  Mitch saved thats snap, he deserves credit for that.  Almost like pouncey in that browns playoff game but too the right and not as high. Mitch is good at recovering a bad snap, maybe a secretive  reason he is the QB2 here  

Listening to Carter and Harner talk about bens comments and the leadership issue.  I always though leaders have to lead by example/play and if they do talk, they have to more than back that up.  This team is the opposite and thats mostly  the players fault , not the HC's fault.

3 hours ago, warfelg said:

This is why I love football so much. Ultimate team sport of 11 acting as 1. 

that it is indeed. It's always nice when a great team defeats a greater talented team as a result, it really makes the point of the team effort . The 1990 Giants beating the 49ers in their house then the favoured Bills in a great SB comes to mind.  I watched life and tines of LT  recently as well 

1 hour ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I love your passion and football prowess 3rivers, but where is the objectiveness from the fans?  If there are no changes they say, "Tomlin isn't doing anything!" When the OC gets fired they say, "It isn't Tomlin, it was AR2!" When they insert Martinez because M. Walker is getting  abused in coverage, "It's too late and not enough!" We (fans) are starting to sound like the media. Let's be objective. I know you and many want Tomlin gone, but to get that to happen everything doesn't have to be anti-Tomlin. He will decide his own fate these final four games. I am trying to get "objective" feedback that can help make an informed decision on whether I will either continue to feel, that Tomlin can still help this team with new components or it is time for him to go. But I want to make an informed and honest assessment and not let the emotions of bad losses and his other opportunities force me to only see that.

CA3 is in the same position as GP.  These guys need someone to get them the ball and pass routes that are deeper than two or three yards.

I appreciate the kind words, I thought I was a salty old fan mostly and intolerable to some/most  as well   

Objectiveness from fans would vary, and are fans worth listening to  anyways? Remember the old line "if you think like them  - you will watch the game with them"? While it is a bit condescending  ,  sometimes it might be a good idea .

Tomlin isn't getting the results, but it's not 100% his fault,  but he also doesn't get the free pass here.  Martinez - well lets say ILB has had the injury bug beyond, no idea why but thats been out of control. Would cover 3 be of help here?  Imagine if that injury bug happened at QB from here on,  or C ? 

AR2, thats a good one. He doesn't get a free pass either.  Should have questioned colbert and tomlin "why are we paying mitch this much and for 2 years? How about a 1 year prove it deal and go from there  ?

Tomlin gone is more a result of the current culture and the only way to get back to the old way is having a major turnover  so coaching as well as players.  He had his time, but it's time to move on.  Even if they were to win, it wouldn't feel right  doing it as they have.  GP and  5 yard routes, no middle of the field for Muth on a regular basis until he defence changes (see bengals game) . Colts play a lot of cover 3, Muth should have a nice game.

I think tomlin could still get wins no doubt, but to do so :

1. we have to start at QB. He is set  on having mitch at QB and thats a major obstacle , so lets say mitch has to play not just better, but actually good - major difference and improvement there in those carefully selected words.

2. don't waste TO's, get bad penalties. This can be precious in close game or for teams that are in a slump .

3. get the legit playmakers the ball, GP and Warren, then Muth if the seams are there and have Muth in the slot  anyways.

4. OL has to get the run game going, they have to step up 

5. how about players not getting involved with media and bens comments  etc. Just stay focussed , perhaps a gag order from here on. No outside distraction from here on, and players should respect that.

6. if there is a hot hand in the run game or WR's , just keep going there until they load the defence to stop that. Go with what works until the defence makes you change, then exploit that defence they present

7. play the best DL on the team all game unlesss they need downs off for injury or if really tired. Hampton, Smith and Keisel  played almost every snap for years in that 2 gap scheme.  

 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

The same things we are saying about Mitch we said about Mason. Be careful what we wish for. We need a healthy Kenny right now.

we have 3 QB's and none of them are good IMO. KP has had his moments in 4th  quarters but thats almost useless and not sustainable in a game with 4 quarters . This is looking dim right now. Mason over mitch has been brought up,  but we know tomlin won't play mason unless mitch gets injured .  So for now, AR2 is getting his money's worth out of mitch much like when a golfer shoots a higher score 

2 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

Colts have historically matched up well with our OL'S. We have not run well against them the past several years before last year.  Buckner is a huge concern.  They have gotten good ILB play from Ziare Franklin.   The Steelers have to execute their game plan and stay on point. The pre snap penalties (especially not covering the TE Chuks).  Despite how bad things are, Mitch scored more points than Kenny has been consistently (18).  He has to not turn the ball over (or can't more than once).

Colts run game is probably going to have yards when we have loudermilk, leal and watts on the DL as well.  Buckner is a force inside, cole will get owned at times.  I have a bad feeling vs the colts that mitch moves the ball but also gets INT's.   I can't believe how much Steichen got from the colts this year despite the injuries, great HC thus far with limited talent in some areas.  Minshew might give us a few S/FF's for TO gifts though, so that might decide in what should be a close game as long as we are decent vs the run.

I still can't see us winning with mitch though unless we get a defensive TD and get into FG range enough for Bos to keep adding to the score board.  It might be trap game for a fan like me - I am waiting for the boo birds and chants at the home game next week if this stays ugly as it has been with mitch. 

 

[3rivers]

4 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Which is one of the reasons I would look at Troy Walters (Bengals WR coach)  OC after the season.  Bengals WR are always ready.

and lets not forget, bring over that WR   (#5) from the bengals as well once we trade dionte 

 

10 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

I think that today's athletes that have come up on social media and having everything put in the spot light.  The level of accountability, the money made by today's athlete $$$$, and overall attitudes are different. I grew up watching (understanding football) at the end of Mike Ditka and **** Butkis eras and the early Steel Curtain development. Football and athletes were different. It was even different during the Blitzburgh Era. Could you imagine these players playing with them or Greg Lloyd, Kevin Greene, and Rod Woodson? 

this really sums up the problem that an older fan has with the current players. Way too much media, social or other, and it takes away from the game and play IMO.  I don't even know how former players that are my age or older can even tolerate whats out on the field as football in current times.  

15 minutes ago, Steeler Hitman said:

The latest is how the Colts game is a playoff game. Take your cliches and go to Washington with Tomlin next year. Fabricated passion is not passion at all. 

It is real what you feel. The thing is a lot of players don't have the love and passion of the fans. It is a job to them and this is a part of our lives, entertainment, etc.  We go to games, go watch them practice, follow them on websites, listen to podcasts and watch videos of the team.  We want players that have that same love.  Fan is short for "fanatic." A fanatic is a person with an excessive passion or zeal towards something.  We would like to see or feel that exhibited from more of our players.  There is something proud and good to be a Steelers fan and part of Steelers Nation. We wonder how some of the players don't get that? Steelers fans are not the run in the mill football fan. We may not boo Santa as the Eagle's fans do, but we are every bit as passionate about my team.

it is a playoff game, so lets see how this roster responds. If they fall flat, that will say all that is needed for both the players and the coaches.  This is pressure that the team needs to respond to, yet I think it will mostly  be mitch that costs them the game  anyways if they are to lose .  Still a concern about the run defence too, but playoff game with low scoring usually has the TO battle decide and mitch's INT prone QB style vs a defence that faces the QB is what we are going to see about.

trading tomlin to washington is what some have thought he would like, but also consider atlanta . Either way, cliche or not, this team needs to win and will have to earn it from here on. They already badly lost the ' easy winnable games'  back to back, so at least thats out of the way.  Fabricated passion   and calling this a playoff game really shouldn't be required. Ideally the team shows up ready to play all out every week. These  are signs of cracks in the armour  

[3rivers]

The Colts rank 26th in the NFL in run yards per game at 131.5 and allow 137.7 yards per game over their last three games. But with key defensive tackle Grover Stewart back, they could boost that. Stewart had not played since October 15th before returning to the lineup last week, but when he is on the field, the team allows just a little over 40 yards less per game. It’s that significant, and he makes the rushing defense go. That would have them in the Top 10 rushing defenses in the NFL. Indianapolis allowed 111 rushing yards in Stewart’s first game back.

[3rivers]

@Steeler Hitman    cued up and says it all,  similar to what you brought up above. 

[3rivers]

mostly the same core yet much different. How does that happen?