Chargers Fire HC Brandon Staley and GM Tom Telesco

[Xenos]

35 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Joe Hortiz

Tell me more about him. I’m intrigued. Does he have good people’s skills, how long has he been working within the Raven’s organization etc.?

 

[DigInBoys]

The fact that this is what it took for them to finally make this move speaks volumes.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Xenos said:

Tell me more about him. I’m intrigued. Does he have good people’s skills, how long has he been working within the Raven’s organization etc.?

 

I'm not a big Ravens follower but I like a lot of at least the business decisions he has been part of. He has been with BAL for about 20 years, ans has learned under GMs Newsome and DeCosta. They have shown that they can draft QBs when they pull the trigger as both Flacco and Jackson were drafted under him. He has been the Director of College Scouting for over 10 years and was their top scout for years before that. Considering how he has stayed in a top rile so long in a top organization he at minimum is highly competent in his role and seems very well respected.

Something else is that he has seen and helped draft players that fit dramatically different systems. BAL always has a hard nosed and physical playstyle but they went from a statue QB to the premier rushing QB in Jackson. They've changed offensive philosophies, developed a ton of good coaches, and developed both of the big QB choices they've had. That's a hell of a resume. And over the last 20 years how many teams have regularly outdrafted BAL? Of course there are whiffs but they have consistently been in the top 10 draft classes for most of those last 20 years.

Also with BAL having such a good list of coaches I doubt he would have much of a difficult time getting a solid staff either. Not only have they had Harbaigh but remember Jim and John's connection, it wouldn't be surprising to see them poach a few from his staff for position roles.

Now I don't know a lot of his personality or anything, but I've listened to a number of his breakdowns on draft classes, WRs, etc and he always seems well-spoken and intelligent. I've used him in a few mocks as my new GM or at Ast GM and would be damn happy to have him. He's garnered a handful of interviews and is just waiting for the right spot at this point imo. He's in a great spot and the Ravens are about as consistent as you want, so it isn't like he's not going to get his shot. But like Newsome and EDC, he isn't going to rush in on an emotional decision either.

[kramxel]

23 hours ago, malak1 said:

Say the chargers want to clean house. What do you think the chargers would say to an offer from the Bears of picks 1 and 6 for Herbert? How much more would they need?

No way. Herbert isn't leaving. 

[kramxel]

Hiring Bellichick would be the most kneejerk reaction ever. 

This team needs a reboot and it's getting it, regardless of who comes in. The way the roster is set up, whoever comes in will have to turn it over in the next 2 years, given our cap situation. 

For that, I'd argue the GM hire, could even be more important than the HC hire, some exceptions aside. 

This seems to favour Bill, but the other factor I haven't mentioned is one of the most importants: Herbert

Providing some stability around Herbert is essential. He's gone through a different coordinator every year since getting in college, and I believe that's showing in his play.

You want to tell me Bill his going to last 5 or 6 more years in this league? 

You want me to be convinced Bill won't bring his collection of idiots to work with Herbert? 

McDaniels is probably the best OC he can get, and we can all agree that would be a trainwreck. 

Give me a top OC, over that, every day of the week. 

Harbaugh might share a lot of Bills issues, but at least he's way younger and still has a lot of good connections. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by kramxel
Typos

[game3525]

Quote

This seems to favour Bill, but the other factor I haven't mentioned is one of the most importants: Herbert

Providing some stability around Herbert is essential. He's gone through a different coordinator every year since getting in college, and I believe that's showing in his play.

Building a winning culture around Herbert is providing stability. Getting someone who understands program building and culture is far more important then scheme, play designs etc. 

[Dr LBC]

12 hours ago, game3525 said:

Building a winning culture around Herbert is providing stability. Getting someone who understands program building and culture is far more important then scheme, play designs etc. 

This is absolutely true.  That said, I have serious doubts that BB is the guy capable of doing that at this stage in his career.  They may have gone on to be subpar HC's when hired, but for a time Belichick had a phenomenal track record of hiring coordinators and creating exploitative schemes (he and Mike Shanahan are pretty much the modern day godfathers in that respect).  But there were also very key cogs in his staff that once he lost he's not been able to recreate his former genius - and that's less a case of Brady and more a case of Dante Scarnecchia aging out and into retirement.

I don't know if there's a modern Vermeil out there.  And what the Chargers really need, but I don't see someone available that fits the bill, would be an Andy Reid when he first came to KC - someone who built a perennial-winner and got oh-so-close to the big one but never quite over the hump.  I'm not sure someone like that is in the pro coaching ranks currently, though.  I don't see him becoming available, but if he were, I'd actually think Vrabel would be an ideal candidate.

[game3525]

10 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

This is absolutely true.  That said, I have serious doubts that BB is the guy capable of doing that at this stage in his career.  They may have gone on to be subpar HC's when hired, but for a time Belichick had a phenomenal track record of hiring coordinators and creating exploitative schemes (he and Mike Shanahan are pretty much the modern day godfathers in that respect).  But there were also very key cogs in his staff that once he lost he's not been able to recreate his former genius - and that's less a case of Brady and more a case of Dante Scarnecchia aging out and into retirement.

I don't know if there's a modern Vermeil out there.  And what the Chargers really need, but I don't see someone available that fits the bill, would be an Andy Reid when he first came to KC - someone who built a perennial-winner and got oh-so-close to the big one but never quite over the hump.  I'm not sure someone like that is in the pro coaching ranks currently, though.  I don't see him becoming available, but if he were, I'd actually think Vrabel would be an ideal candidate.

My biggest concern with BB is that he hasn't been willing to trade on his name a little bit and hire outside of his network. Nick Saban does it all the time, while Bill doesn't. Maybe that changes once he gets out of NE, but that is my biggest concern with him at the moment. 

If Mike Tomlin and the Steelers decide to part ways then he would probably be the top candidate. Well respected, has credibility etc. Also, unlike BB and Harbaugh, he is probably not going to care about having significant input in terms of personnel. He would probably be more flexible with staffing too compared to Bill.  Vrabel would be great, but Tennessee would be stupid to move off of him. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by game3525

[Xenos]

12 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

This is absolutely true.  That said, I have serious doubts that BB is the guy capable of doing that at this stage in his career.  They may have gone on to be subpar HC's when hired, but for a time Belichick had a phenomenal track record of hiring coordinators and creating exploitative schemes (he and Mike Shanahan are pretty much the modern day godfathers in that respect).  But there were also very key cogs in his staff that once he lost he's not been able to recreate his former genius - and that's less a case of Brady and more a case of Dante Scarnecchia aging out and into retirement.

I don't know if there's a modern Vermeil out there.  And what the Chargers really need, but I don't see someone available that fits the bill, would be an Andy Reid when he first came to KC - someone who built a perennial-winner and got oh-so-close to the big one but never quite over the hump.  I'm not sure someone like that is in the pro coaching ranks currently, though.  I don't see him becoming available, but if he were, I'd actually think Vrabel would be an ideal candidate.

Yeah agree about BB no longer having it at his age and his inability to get a good staff together anymore. Let’s not even talk about his GM responsibilities which were awful for a while, even when they were winning SBs.

If the Spanos hire a GM first again, I hope they at least get one from a franchise like the Eages or Ravens that have a culture in place.

[Xenos]

On 12/16/2023 at 8:09 AM, game3525 said:

Yup. The athletic podcast had a former Chargers scout of the last 10 years on and he talked about the culture of mediocrity there and that no one asks the tough questions and they are just cashing checks. They have major systemic issues that hiring a popular name (ex. Ben Johnson) on twitter isn't going to fix it. They have got to get someone in there who can change the entire culture of the organization like AJ and Marty did back in the day.

Listening to the podcast, I guess I have questions like who didn’t listen to him? He worked under both AJ and Telesco, and they’re the only ones that matter. You honestly don’t need to have ownership involved.

At the end of the day, he was a former GM that got fired by Miami and became a scout with us for 10 years. He obviously didn’t have that big of an issue if he was there for 10 years.

Edited December 18, 2023 by Xenos

[DigInBoys]

I'm not so sure I disagree with letting Telesco go. He assembled a ton of talent, drafted Herbert etc.

Yeah Staley was a bad move, but you can bring in some outside consultants to help with coach hiring or just go for a brand name.

 

 

[Dr LBC]

14 hours ago, DigInBoys said:

I'm not so sure I disagree with letting Telesco go. He assembled a ton of talent, drafted Herbert etc.

Yeah Staley was a bad move, but you can bring in some outside consultants to help with coach hiring or just go for a brand name.

 

 

Telesco (and, I guess, we'll find out how much of this was as a proxy for John Spanos) also habitually overrated and overprioritized positions that weren't in-line with the philosophies of his coaches, were god-awful positional value to begin with (and more often than not also tended to including TT trading up to get said guy).  The man was completely averse to trading back.  And, arguably his bigger detractor, he painted himself into corners with his guys and would end up allowing more talented players (who had proved it on the field and habitually beat out his guys) leave in free agency while giving extensions to his guys, who often tended to "earn" their reps and starts because of injury to the guy in front of them.  Further on that one, he'd dig his heels in on admitting his mistakes on the extensions given to those guys to the detriment of the team.

[NudeTayne]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:38 PM, Sugashane said:

I'm not a big Ravens follower but I like a lot of at least the business decisions he has been part of. He has been with BAL for about 20 years, ans has learned under GMs Newsome and DeCosta. They have shown that they can draft QBs when they pull the trigger as both Flacco and Jackson were drafted under him. He has been the Director of College Scouting for over 10 years and was their top scout for years before that. Considering how he has stayed in a top rile so long in a top organization he at minimum is highly competent in his role and seems very well respected.

Something else is that he has seen and helped draft players that fit dramatically different systems. BAL always has a hard nosed and physical playstyle but they went from a statue QB to the premier rushing QB in Jackson. They've changed offensive philosophies, developed a ton of good coaches, and developed both of the big QB choices they've had. That's a hell of a resume. And over the last 20 years how many teams have regularly outdrafted BAL? Of course there are whiffs but they have consistently been in the top 10 draft classes for most of those last 20 years.

Also with BAL having such a good list of coaches I doubt he would have much of a difficult time getting a solid staff either. Not only have they had Harbaigh but remember Jim and John's connection, it wouldn't be surprising to see them poach a few from his staff for position roles.

Now I don't know a lot of his personality or anything, but I've listened to a number of his breakdowns on draft classes, WRs, etc and he always seems well-spoken and intelligent. I've used him in a few mocks as my new GM or at Ast GM and would be damn happy to have him. He's garnered a handful of interviews and is just waiting for the right spot at this point imo. He's in a great spot and the Ravens are about as consistent as you want, so it isn't like he's not going to get his shot. But like Newsome and EDC, he isn't going to rush in on an emotional decision either.

The fact that this is all true makes me absolutely sick with rage. The Ravens have been top-5 in drafting in the last 20 years or so. Angry. 

TL;DR anyone who lets a talent like Greg Roman walk out the door in favor of Harbaugh doesn't know a damn thing about football smdh

TL;DR fire Joe Hortiz

Edited December 20, 2023 by NudeTayne

[game3525]

TT's teams were very much like the late 2000s Colts teams that he helped built. Big names, very little depth, and soft in both o/d lines. Even the best team he put together (2018 Chargers) got smoked by NE because the Pats man-handled them up front. 

Hopefully, they are looking hard at Baltimore, SF, and Philly when it comes to GM's candidates. All three of those teams are put a premium on line play. 

[DigInBoys]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39161026/los-angeles-chargers-coach-brandon-staley-fired-2023-players-speak