LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: No. Suggs was a much better edge bender. Chubb is going to be a rock solid player, but I don't see a future DPOY. I see a very good starter. I get more of a Cameron Jordan vibe, but that’s just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I get more of a Cameron Jordan vibe, but that’s just me. He's somewhere in between those two. I don't think people remember how freaky Suggs was when he was 21 years old. He had all the tools. Chubb has...well...some of the tools, but Suggs was a better athlete. I like Chubb and would consider him with the #4 pick, but only if Barkley is gone. If Barkley is gone, it's between Chubb and Derwin James for me. I'd lean James to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Just now, BleedTheClock said: He's somewhere in between those two. I don't think people remember how freaky Suggs was when he was 21 years old. He had all the tools. Chubb has...well...some of the tools, but Suggs was a better athlete. I like Chubb and would consider him with the #4 pick, but only if Barkley is gone. If Barkley is gone, it's between Chubb and Derwin James for me. I'd lean James to be honest. I’m 100% team trade down, but gun to my head I take Chubb. Not sure where James fits with Peppers and Kindred. I personally don’t think safety is a huge need either. If James was a Malik Hooker level FS, maybe, yeah, sure, but another guy who’s arguably best served playing in the box? Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: How do you like Ronnie Harrison at FS? He is slated to go somewhere late first to really second round so may be there at the top of round two for us. Ronnie Harrison does play some FS...well...2-high safety, but he's not playing Free in the NFL. Much too stiff to handle that. He's a stud though...I think he's better than Minkah Fitzpatrick, which is apparently a crazy hot take. He is good in coverage, but not rangy. He knows how to cut off angles and is a fierce striker against crossers and anyone that has the football in their hands. Quick to react, quicker to punish. He could handle some 2-high safety where he isn't asked to cover a 20 yard horizontal radius like a free safety does, but the thought of him playing in Gregg Williams defense as a FS is mind-numbing. He can't do it. He likely won't be a target of the Browns but I'm willing to bet he'll make several pro bowls as a SS. Not dissimilar from Landon Collins, as much as I try to avoid the same-school comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’m 100% team trade down, but gun to my head I take Chubb. Not sure where James fits with Peppers and Kindred. I personally don’t think safety is a huge need either. If James was a Malik Hooker level FS, maybe, yeah, sure, but another guy who’s arguably best served playing in the box? Meh. Derwin James has a much better chance to play FS than the other recent SS's turn FS. He has unbelievable physical tools, elite instincts, man coverage ability, and provides both burner speed and lateral speed. He's absolutely a better fit at SS because of how violent he is, but I would expect him to have ZERO problems transitioning to FS because of his coverage ability and off the charts physical tools. All that being said, I'm not sure any FS warrants 1st round consideration in Gregg Williams' defense because of how we use them. They are playing 30 yards off the ball and are rarely asked to be a part of the actual defensive concepts. You could put me back there at FS and get the same results as we would get from putting Derwin James there. If I could change one thing about the Browns schematically, it would be our FS positioning. It burns us constantly and we still keep going to it. It takes a box playmaker that we drafted #25 overall and eliminates his ability. Mind-numbingly stupid scheme if you ask me. I know he doesn't trust our corners and safeties to play up, but teams dink and dunk us all game long. We give offenses such easy yardage I'm surprised anyone ever runs the ball against our vanilla coverages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Agree completely, it’s one of the reasons I’d like a trade down. Obviously more assets is my thing, but a guy like Denzel Ward a few picks later is a player at a premium position and also a position of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosko1616 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 How about Preston Smith as a Bradley Chubb comp ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, bosko1616 said: How about Preston Smith as a Bradley Chubb comp ? I don’t see Chubb as a guy who could play in space like Sizzle or Smith have/do. I see a 4-3 DE all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 31 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: @Mind Character nailed it. His best fit, IMO, is as a nickel corner. Solid in all areas, but not a natural FS. He's also pretty lanky to be playing in the box full-time. I honestly don't like him and find him to be overrated as an NFL prospect. He's a perfect jack-of-all-trades college football player, but I don't see him being anything more than a really solid player in the NFL. @Rich7sena hit the nail on the head with his comparison IMO: Micah Hyde. He's basically Micah Hyde that can play solid man coverage on bigger/less quick slot receivers. We don't need Minkah Fitzpatrick here...especially with the #4 overall pick. If we take a safety that high, it better be Derwin James. Micah Hyde is an interesting comp. You had me somewhat until Derwin James being a better safety prospect than Derwin. Derwin is really a LB that can play SS. He's less versatile than Minkah and not even close to as good as Minkah in pass defense or in run support. If I had to pick between the 2 go play SS, I'd go Minkah b/c Derwin doesn't have fluid hips or the quick trigger Minkah does. However, Derwin is a special talent in his own right. He's a perfect fit for the Arizona defense as a roaming SS who aligns as a LB in their nickel packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Micah Hyde is an interesting comp. You had me somewhat until Derwin James being a better safety prospect than Derwin. Derwin is really a LB that can play SS. He's less versatile than Minkah and not even close to as good as Minkah in pass defense or in run support. If I had to pick between the 2 go play SS, I'd go Minkah b/c Derwin doesn't have fluid hips or the quick trigger Minkah does. However, Derwin is a special talent in his own right. He's a perfect fit for the Arizona defense as a roaming SS who aligns as a LB in their nickel packages. James had the best statistical coverage stats of any power 5 conference safety this year. I'm lazy and unqualified to find this statistic, so if anyone else can, that'd be MAGNEEFICENT! I don't agree that he is a SS only type. He's built like a SS, but check his lateral agility and footwork. I guarantee you he tests better athletically than Minkah Fitzpatrick in everything other than maybe length. He is a monster covering SCF zones (purple c3 zones for you madden players) and in man coverage. I have seen him play traditional FS a lot dating back to his freshman year and he excelled in that role. He's more than just a linebacker IMO. Fitzpatrick was a more well-rounded college player, but I'm taking Derwin James and his crazy upside over Fitzpatrick's. Minkah is going to be a solid football player. Derwin James has the chance to be Sean Taylor good. (note: he has a LOOONNNGGG way to go to match Taylor's intangibles, but they are physically very similar.) To that point, Sean Taylor played a bunch of deep safety in the NFL at 6'2 225 pounds and was extremely successful at doing this because he had excellent hips. Derwin James was not asked to play a ton of FS at FSU this year because they needed him in the box, not because he's not capable of playing there. I guess I see why you like Fitzpatrick better in coverage because of his ability to play man coverage, but Derwin James has much more potential and is still a very good coverage player in his own rite and, IMO, a better zone defender right now. Plus he's a terrifying hitter and missiles people like they were nothing. I see so many plays where he's out of frame one second and the next he's right in the grill of the offensive player blowing him up. His closing burst makes Minkah Fitzpatrick look like a man stuck in quicksand. Again, I don't want to make it seem like Minkah sucks because he doesn't. But both are elite college football players and I see a higher upside with Derwin James where it looks like Minkah has maxed out his ability. I guess I am going a little more on the side of potential here, but I don't think Derwin James has a low floor like most freak potential guys do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: He's somewhere in between those two. I don't think people remember how freaky Suggs was when he was 21 years old. He had all the tools. Chubb has...well...some of the tools, but Suggs was a better athlete. I like Chubb and would consider him with the #4 pick, but only if Barkley is gone. If Barkley is gone, it's between Chubb and Derwin James for me. I'd lean James to be honest. Suggs as an athlete ran 4.84 and 4.88, but his burst and power was insane. After posting 2 back to back 10 sack seasons, Suggs had 31 TFLS and 24 sacks his senior season!! despite massive production his combine and perception as a slow and not explosive athlete dropped him to 10 overall. Suggs was on a different level in terms of power and short yardage explosion. Chubb is similar in that raw power is a key to his game, but he's just as relentless as Suggs was coming out. The best comparison for Chubb is a less explosive, less twitchy Everson Griffin. Their games are so similar is wild. That's 8-13 sacks a year. Multiple strip sacks. Chubb will be a 10 sack guy his first year. Saquon's going to the Colts unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 @BleedTheClock Sean Taylor was in an entirely different universe compared to Derwin. instincts wise, understanding of the game, eye discipline, mental diagnose of the pass, fluid hips, range ability, ball skills. Minkah will run 4.47 Derwin will run 4.56 40 times don't really matter though...Minkah plays faster to me. We shall see I guess. I have yet to see a game where Derwin is asked to range like a FS. To be fair, I've only seen 5 games this year of Derwin, but he's always in the box and aligned like a LB like Minkah is. He also doesn't mentally diagnose things as fast as Minkah. Both are Strong Safeties, but Derwin will be best suited as a nickel LB that can ran to stop the run and completely take away TEs in pass coverage. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm willing to bet Derwin finds himself being discussed as a LB with SS versatility come March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Minkah was a better CB than Marlon Humphrey and a better safety than Clinton-Dix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 @BleedTheClock What are you seein my man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhioG Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 4 hours ago, Mind Character said: I think he could be special as a physical boundary corner but needs a lot of work. He has the speed, but his eyes aren't great and he doesn't really have the instincts to run with a WR with his back to the QB then find the composure to turn around and make a play on the ball. SOLD Everything I read makes me confident he will fix flaws in his game. I was more worried he doesnt have the speed to play CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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