2018 Draft Thread I

[Justone2]

Lazard as a late round pick i can get behind. He knows how to use his height and has pretty good hands. If he tests better than expected he can be a guy that rises a lot but i wouldn't pick him before day 3. He is however the type of receiver we need to complement what we already have.

[John232]

I like Lazard, he has really good hands and he plays up to his size. But he looks really slow and I'm not sure he's going to be able to separate at the next level. The quick twitch explosion just doesn't appear to be there.  But he could still have a good career. Definitely a solid pick in the fourth round and above. I'd also expect a guy his size to dominate RAC and he doesn't do it for me there either. Cobbs/Sutton do.

 

My hot take might be that Simmie Cobbs goes in the first. 

I really like Cobbs and Tate. Brown and Sutton I like too but to a lesser extent. 

[big9erfan]

Stll personally not interested in a WR in the first two rounds.  But there should be a few nice prospects for either of our 3rd rounders, or maybe even lower.  I've seen a couple of 2 round drafts that don't have Cobbs going in the first two.  Would be ecstatic if he fell to our third round picks.  Walter Football doesn't even have Scott going in the first 4 rounds.  So he could be a nice later round pickup.

You're right though about this year being a lot different from last year when it comes to WRs.

[Justone2]

Marcel Ateman is another pretty interesting guy. 

 

But this is a really good year for those bigger receivers. Lots of guys around that 6'3 and above mark. And lucky for us we can use that bigger receiver that can learn behind Garcon this year and then hopefully take over that role next year while having a role in the red zone his first year.

[y2lamanaki]

11 minutes ago, John232 said:

My hot take might be that Simmie Cobbs goes in the first. 

I agree. Cobbs has all the right receiving skills (not impressed with his run blocking). I think he's going to climb throughout the draft process. Might end up in a spot that's hard to get to unless we trade back. 

But I watched Cobbs do great things every game. Ridiculous catches above all sorts of corners against all teams. I have him rated as a late 1st. I'm hoping not, and I'm hoping we can get a chance at him.

[John232]

Eh, Walter is great, but not accurate at all of placement. Granted, placement is kind of impossible to predict once you get out of the big name prospects each year, but some of these guys are poised to sky rocket if they test well. Scott's name is already being brought up as "The sleeper receiver".  Until free agency and testing happens, it's going to be impossible to predict where some of these guys land. 

[John232]

2 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I agree. Cobbs has all the right receiving skills (not impressed with his run blocking). I think he's going to climb throughout the draft process. Might end up in a spot that's hard to get to unless we trade back. 

But I watched Cobbs do great things every game. Ridiculous catches above all sorts of corners against all teams. I have him rated as a late 1st. I'm hoping not, and I'm hoping we can get a chance at him.

Yeah, I probably haven't watched as much as you. But He really looks the part. Quick, strong after the catch, appears to have really good technique when catching the ball, uses his size. Doesn't look like a burner, but tracks the ball really well in the air which can make him for a lack of blazing speed. Certainly doesn't look slow either. 

 

If he's at our pick in the second, it'd be hard for me to pass on him. 

 

I'd also throw in Auden Tate as a guy who would be incredibly hard to pass on in the second. Tate is also only 20. Dude is 6'5 225 at 20 and looks incredibly smooth and athletic. 

[48 1/2ers]

Someone explain to me why Nelson is a full round or two better than Ragnow. Please

[Forge]

6 hours ago, 48 1/2ers said:

Someone explain to me why Nelson is a full round or two better than Ragnow. Please

This one is actually pretty easy for me. I'll preface this by saying that I'm actually a fan of Ragnow - I think he's a perfect fit for this line and this scheme that we run, and I wouldn't mind it at all if we took him with our second rounder. But strictly speaking from a prospect evaluation? It's not really all that close for me. 

One, I think that Nelson is just the better blocker in both the passing and run game. Nelson is also more technically sound and ungodly stronger.  Ragnow is actually a good pass protector as a center (I don't believe that he ever allowed a sack in college), but then again, his job is the easiest in pass protection overall. Ragnow moves really well, but he's got some technical and fundamental flaws in his run blocking, most notably, he blocks high. A lot. Unfortunately, he doesn't have the strength to compensate for this like Nelson does when he blocks high. Now, this isn't as bad on the second level where sometimes you really just need a chip block to create that open space for your running back (he does this a lot), but  its very easy for him to get run over on a third or 4th and short when he doesn't create a push because he's not driving through his legs.  That is a liability concern I don't have with Nelson who just fires off the line low and drives people back pretty consistently yet still has the strength to drive guys when he loses the position battle. Granted, it's a little different as he is a guard, but what he does is really amazing. I think Ragnow could afford to get a little stronger as I think that there's a good chance that he could potentially get eaten up by bigger , powerful interior defensive linemen. He loses anchor more than I want to see. If you want a perfect example, check out the Texas A&M game. In the first quarter, Arkansas got down to the 1 or 2 yard line and tried to run the ball twice. You can see Ragnow get almost no push and pretty much just get stood up on each play. Now, that's not a definitive loss - he didn't give up real penetration, but it's not really a victory either as when you're on that short yardage situation, you need your line driving forward . Nelson is just a massively better in regards to pure power in my opinion, and that matters. He fires off the line in a way and it's just like, wow. 

Also, Nelson is just plain nastier. He finishes blocks like Orlando Pace used to in college. If you watch Ragnow sometimes, I feel like he's sometimes just bumping into his blocks, then moving to another guy, etc. Especially in space. Maybe that is the design and that's what he's supposed to do, I don't know, but I rarely watch him really get into someone.  I guess what you could say is I feel like Nelson  decisively wins a lot of his battles, where as with Ragnow, I feel like sometimes he's just holding on long enough to survive...Nelson is throwing knockout blows and Ragnow is hoping to finish the fight and win by decision, if that makes sense. Nelson's play recognition, football IQ and awareness is some of the best I've seen on an offensive lineman, as well. That's not meant to be a knock on Ragnow (though I do see him kind of lost sometimes on what to do / who to block in some situations, though far more in space than on the line) , it's just that Nelson is one of the best I've seen in that regard. It's freakish. Watch him pick up stunts. Or do a little thing like hit the second level, pick up his block, and turn his back to the ball carrier to full lock up his guy...and again, that's on the second level. You almost never see people do that. Watch him pick up the blitz on the other side of the line (the Georgia game, I think). Nelson also uses his hands much better than Ragnow; when he locks up on you, it's over. Ragnow isn't close to that. I mean, that's a huge, huge difference between the two. Now, that's not to say that Nelson is perfect in every regard...he plays a little wide waist up, and that's something he'll need to work as he gets away with that in college given how strong he is, but if he tries to go wide on someone like Aaron Donald, it's probably not going to work, and Ragnow moves in space better and gets to the second level much faster, though the latter still moves pretty well all things considered. He's just not crazy athletic / fast in that regard. This is a bit of a concern about how he fits in with us overall - and if we are going to use him in space, pulling out a lot...that could be a concern that I would certainly understand, but I don't think that the flaw is big enough to really hinder him a ton. His ability in pass protection, short yardage situations....I'll take that all day. 

[Forge]

On 1/17/2018 at 1:35 PM, J-ALL-DAY said:

Has anyone watched Davenport yet? Candidate for our 1st rounder or no?

I watched some finally (just what's up on DB)..... I get what would make him a first round pick for sure...but man, he's really, really raw, and he's going to have to transition in position from essentially a 3-4 olb (he plays standing up for UTSA) to a 4-3 DE for us, which compounds that. I think that he has too far to go for me to take him at 9/10 but its tempting because when it works, he's impressive. Closing speed is there, powerful hands. There's just a lot of ways that can go wrong because he has a lot to work on, and I still want to see him against better competition (senior bowl) before I would consider it. But yeah, there is a ton potential there...just may be a minute before he gets there. I think he's a little slow off the snap sometimes, and a little stiff. Needs a lot of technique and pass rush skill work. 

[Forge]

8 hours ago, John232 said:

I like Lazard, he has really good hands and he plays up to his size. But he looks really slow and I'm not sure he's going to be able to separate at the next level.

I said the same thing about him. I really want to like him because he has some really nice qualities, but man, he looks like he's running in mud all of the time. I see him as more of a niche role player at the next level. Don't love the upside even with this size. 

[Justone2]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I said the same thing about him. I really want to like him because he has some really nice qualities, but man, he looks like he's running in mud all of the time. I see him as more of a niche role player at the next level. Don't love the upside even with this size. 

I feel a lot has to do with him being a tall long strider. They will automatically look slower. His quickness is more of a problem i have with him. He doesn't really have that sudden change of direction because he doesn't really plants his foot hard enough to make that quick cut. I am curious to see how he performs at the combine.

 

That said he doesn't really need to run past people to be open. When you have his size, hands and body control you basically are always open and he seems to always find a soft spot against zone coverage.

[AustrianNiner]

Damn, Cobbs really looks good. Actually feels like he's the only one who is able to consistently make contestet catches and one of the very few who creates some 'wow' moments. If he gets the right ball thrown at him it's very hard to defend him. 

Still like Courtland Sutton too, he(at least to me) looks very athletic for a guy of his size, he just has some annoying drops and I've also seen him draw some offensive PI penalties because he couldn't get open and then simply pushes his defenders away. 

Both are probably late 1st/early to mid 2nd rounders so hard far us to get one of them. Not sure I'd want our first pick in the draft to be a WR either if we can trade down into this area.

St.Brown looks quite good too, but he really isn't impressive enough to pick him in the first round and he'll probably not get to day 2. Tate just looks slow to me and he isn't as dominant and reliable as his size would suggest.

Probably one of the best things we can look for is to find someone like the Lions last year at the end of rd 3 with Kenny Golladay.

 

[John232]

Depending on what happens in FA, if we miss out on a big name receiver, I could see us going Sutton at 9/10 if the elite guys are gone. Wouldn't love it, but I'd believe in Shanny and Co. to utilize them correctly and coach them up. 

[rudyZ]

26 minutes ago, John232 said:

Depending on what happens in FA, if we miss out on a big name receiver, I could see us going Sutton at 9/10 if the elite guys are gone. Wouldn't love it, but I'd believe in Shanny and Co. to utilize them correctly and coach them up. 

I'd have a hard time imagining that he'd be the best talent left on the board, or that we'd reach for a receiver. I don't think Kyle or John are desperate for a receiver. Any team would love to find a #1 WR, of course, but I don't know that Sutton is a top 10 talent. Outside of QB and safety (and the special teams), we can afford to upgrade every single position. So why reach for any of them? Just take the best player.