battle2heaven Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 30 minutes ago, swede700 said: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/vikings-got-a-deal-for-dalton-risner Legit camp competition at LG. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 15 minutes ago, battle2heaven said: Legit camp competition at LG. Agreed. Since it's very similar compensation as for Brandel, that means it's clearly a competition. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 4 hours ago, swede700 said: https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/vikings-got-a-deal-for-dalton-risner That's sad. I was hoping to find out that the Vikings got Risner for meaningfully less than the UFA tender would have been. Instead, they might end up paying him more than the tender would have been. Why didn't they just offer him the tender? Did something happen in OTAs that caused them to reconsider how much the values Risner? What could have that been? The only think I can come up with is they tried out Brandel at LG in practices and found out something they didn't see last year. But if that is the case, that is a sad state of affairs. Real sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted June 4 Author Share Posted June 4 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 16 hours ago, Cearbhall said: That's sad. I was hoping to find out that the Vikings got Risner for meaningfully less than the UFA tender would have been. Instead, they might end up paying him more than the tender would have been. Why didn't they just offer him the tender? Did something happen in OTAs that caused them to reconsider how much the values Risner? What could have that been? The only think I can come up with is they tried out Brandel at LG in practices and found out something they didn't see last year. But if that is the case, that is a sad state of affairs. Real sad. what are you talking about? He is coming incredibly cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 1 hour ago, battle2heaven said: what are you talking about? He is coming incredibly cheap. I am talking about the team opting against giving Risner a tender offer. If they were willing to pay him over $3MM, and it looks like they are, why didn't they extend the offer? I haven't seen a good explanation. The best so far is my own pure speculation that Brandel didn't look as good as they thought he was going to look. Do you have an alternative theory that fits what we have seen happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted June 5 Author Share Posted June 5 3 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: I am talking about the team opting against giving Risner a tender offer. If they were willing to pay him over $3MM, and it looks like they are, why didn't they extend the offer? I haven't seen a good explanation. The best so far is my own pure speculation that Brandel didn't look as good as they thought he was going to look. Do you have an alternative theory that fits what we have seen happen? I'm still confused as to why you believe they could have tendered him anything. I recall you attaching the part of the CBA where you believe that they could, but I don't agree that that is what it was saying. Since he was a UFA and not a RFA, they couldn't tender him anything. They could have made him an offer, which I'm certain they did, but since he was a UFA, they can't get anything in return for him, unless they tagged him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 10 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: I am talking about the team opting against giving Risner a tender offer. If they were willing to pay him over $3MM, and it looks like they are, why didn't they extend the offer? I haven't seen a good explanation. The best so far is my own pure speculation that Brandel didn't look as good as they thought he was going to look. Do you have an alternative theory that fits what we have seen happen? What is a tender offer for a veteran free agent? He was not a restricted free agent. I am sorry but I am not following. I am not trying to be rude, but I am not following you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 11 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: Do you have an alternative theory that fits what we have seen happen? His cap hit for 2024 is only like, 2.41M My theory is that Risner's price point dropped low enough for the Vikings to justify to bring him back, to compete for the LG spot. Because if he doesn't win the spot and Brandel shows to be better, it's not a cost drain having his 2.41 cap hit on the bench as a veteran back up. If they were to sign him to something like 6-8m APY, he'd be pretty much locked in as the starter. But they like Brandel and they want to give him an honest shot at winning the gig. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 "A respect deal," Risner said of the one-year deal he signed with the Vikings in late May. "No reason to wait out (the Vikings), who had an offer on the table. To be honest with you, I wasn't getting much action anywhere else." https://www.si.com/nfl/vikings/dalton-risner-admits-he-wasn-t-getting-much-action-in-free-agency-01hzj5y2veew He changed agents, shortly after FA opened I believe, and lands a deal to come in and compete. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 2 hours ago, battle2heaven said: His cap hit for 2024 is only like, 2.41M My theory is that Risner's price point dropped low enough for the Vikings to justify to bring him back, to compete for the LG spot. Because if he doesn't win the spot and Brandel shows to be better, it's not a cost drain having his 2.41 cap hit on the bench as a veteran back up. If they were to sign him to something like 6-8m APY, he'd be pretty much locked in as the starter. But they like Brandel and they want to give him an honest shot at winning the gig. If Risner doesn’t win the starting LG job, does he even make the roster? Historically, he doesn’t have a lot of position flexibility. He’s been a LG at the NFL level, that’s it. On the other hand, Brandel has a lot of position flexibility and can play several positions on the OL. If Brandel is the starter at LG, I think they look at keeping another more flexible (than Risner) OL guy to be a backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle2heaven Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 25 minutes ago, marshpit23 said: If Risner doesn’t win the starting LG job, does he even make the roster? Historically, he doesn’t have a lot of position flexibility. He’s been a LG at the NFL level, that’s it. On the other hand, Brandel has a lot of position flexibility and can play several positions on the OL. If Brandel is the starter at LG, I think they look at keeping another more flexible (than Risner) OL guy to be a backup. If Brandel has the position flexibility, but Risner is probably the best backup LG on the team, why cut Risner? So let's say Ingram gets hurt. Slide Brandel to RG and insert Risner at LG. IMO, it's Feeney vs Jurgens for that backup C/OG role. Risner is a starting caliber LG; albiet the median starting caliber. But that is certainly better than Feeney. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshpit23 Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 8 minutes ago, battle2heaven said: If Brandel has the position flexibility, but Risner is probably the best backup LG on the team, why cut Risner? So let's say Ingram gets hurt. Slide Brandel to RG and insert Risner at LG. IMO, it's Feeney vs Jurgens for that backup C/OG role. Risner is a starting caliber LG; albiet the median starting caliber. But that is certainly better than Feeney. Fair points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 hours ago, swede700 said: I'm still confused as to why you believe they could have tendered him anything. I recall you attaching the part of the CBA where you believe that they could, but I don't agree that that is what it was saying. Since he was a UFA and not a RFA, they couldn't tender him anything. They could have made him an offer, which I'm certain they did, but since he was a UFA, they can't get anything in return for him, unless they tagged him. It isn't so much what I believe, but the rules agreed to by the NFL and NFLPA. As you mention, I posted those previously. Actually, I think I have posted them twice. I don't know what you see in those rules that needs clarification so, unfortunately, I don't know how I can help. The parts of the CBA I posted do not have anything to do with restricted free agents, so I am not sure how you are confusing the two. What I posted (and cited) is from Article 9 of the CBA. Article 9 is specifically about veteran free agency. The title of the section is "Veteran Free Agency". The title of section 1, which is what I referenced is "Unrestricted Free Agents". I apologize for not understanding where you are getting confused. It all seems very clear to me, which makes it hard to understand where it may be unclear to someone else. Article 9, Section 1(b)(i) | NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) | Over The Cap I am not sure whether examples will help, but under the "anything that has been done is possible" line of reasoning perhaps it will convince someone that it is possible -- the CBA is the definitive source. Here is example of the Ravans and Chiefs using the UFA tender a couple years ago: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ravens-chiefs-reportedl-put-rare-ufa-tenders-on-justin-houston-and-melvin-ingram-keeping-compensatory-status/ It's in the rules. It's been done so we know it is possible. I don't understand why the Vikings didn't place a UFA tender on Risner. Anyway, thanks for letting me know that you don't understand the rule. I wish I was better at explaining and apologize if my explanation comes off as condescending. I simply am at wits end trying to explain and don't really know how I can make it clearer than what I have already posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 3 hours ago, battle2heaven said: What is a tender offer for a veteran free agent? He was not a restricted free agent. I am sorry but I am not following. I am not trying to be rude, but I am not following you? See what I wrote to Mr. @swede700 above. What I am talking about has nothing to do with restricted free agency. I am talking about the UFA tender that I wanted the team to place on Risner. In my response to Mr. @swede700 I put a link to the specific section of the CBA involved. I assume you weren't following the forum when I explained it before, but I can find where I posted about it before if you want to see the context of what I am talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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