Boston College Head Coach Jeff Hafley is Packers New DC

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

You can't go wrong picking an OL if you think he's going to upgrade your starting five. Just ask Det, SF and KC how important OL is. If you protect Love, we are going to win a lot of games. 

We disagree on this.

IOL specifically in round one.

Trey Smith of KC was a 6th round pick.  Thuney didn't even play in the SB and KC got by just fine.  Not sure about Detroit or San Fran, but my guess is that their IOL are not first round picks.

IOL is not the same as OT.

But since you brought those up....I'll look them up.  

KC.  Thuney (high end free agent who missed SB and some playoffs).  Smith, 6'th round pick.

SF.  Feliciano, 4th round pick.  Banks, 2nd round pick.

Detroit.  Jackson, 3rd round pick.  Vaitai, 5th round pick.

One was a large investment.  One.

I agree we gotta protect Love.  Just not agreeing on the value of a pure IOL in the first round.

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

San Francisco’s OL isn’t that great, specifically the IOL.  Detroit is the exception with one IOL that was a FRP.  San Francisco invested a SRP into Aaron Banks with mixed results.  Kansas City spent heavily on the OL, but Kansas City goes as far as Mahomes does.

I'd probably agree...and it cost them a ring. You have a better interior to control Jones on a few of those rushes and SF wins in regulation. 

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

Depends on the definition of value. I'd argue there's nothing more valuable (outside of QB and maybe pass rusher) than your starting 5 OL. 

The Packers should have gone to the NFCCG (and maybe the SB this year). We didn't fail because we had Valentine and Nixon in the secondary or a group of young WRs, etc. If anything, we failed because Tom got hurt and we then failed to score on the last 4 drives of the game after he went out. Our OL got just a hint weaker and it probably cost us the game. We saw the same thing play out in 2020 and even 2021 with some of the issues we had there following Bak's injury. Having a rock solid starting 5 (or even 6) OL is so critical in the playoffs.  

If it comes down to Rhyan + 1st round CB vs. 1st round RG + Valentine...which one is more value there? I don't think it's as clear as you think. All I'm saying is, I wouldn't mind that pick whatsoever. I'm not pounding the table either way.

You can easily get great value on an IOL outside of round one.  GB is almost a poster child for how to draft guards in mid rounds.

I'll take Rhyan + first round CB or any other premium + 2nd or 3rd round IOL as being  the correct choice.  And to me, yah, it is pretty clear.

Exceptions to the rule?  For sure.  If Quentin Nelson is sitting there, you take him.  He's an elite guard and has been right away, and I've long thought he could flip to RT at a moment's notice.  Also?  I'm not opposed to taking a center late in the first, if one is graded that high (instant starter) and you don't have a starter under contract.

But that's not where we are at.

[packfanfb]

6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

We disagree on this.

IOL specifically in round one.

Trey Smith of KC was a 6th round pick.  Thuney didn't even play in the SB and KC got by just fine.  Not sure about Detroit or San Fran, but my guess is that their IOL are not first round picks.

IOL is not the same as OT.

But since you brought those up....I'll look them up.  

KC.  Thuney (high end free agent who missed SB and some playoffs).  Smith, 6'th round pick.

SF.  Feliciano, 4th round pick.  Banks, 2nd round pick.

Detroit.  Jackson, 3rd round pick.  Vaitai, 5th round pick.

One was a large investment.  One.

I agree we gotta protect Love.  Just not agreeing on the value of a pure IOL in the first round.

I don't think any of this really matters at pick 25. You're not talking top 10 here. In today's NFL, there's no safe space on the OL. It's like saying, hey we'll put the worst player in right field in baseball. Teams move their best pass rushers around more than they ever have in the past. Parsons, Hutchinson, Crosby...those guys line up over guards to create mismatches. 

Edited February 16 by packfanfb

[squire12]

4 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

You can easily get great value on an IOL outside of round one.  GB is almost a poster child for how to draft guards in mid rounds.

And you can get great value at any position later as well.  Tramon Williams and Sam Shields were UDFA players.  Snead was a 4th for KC.  Ward for SF was a UDFA.

[CWood21]

6 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Depends on the definition of value. I'd argue there's nothing more valuable (outside of QB and maybe pass rusher) than your starting 5 OL. 

I’d argue DL and CB are more valuable than OG.  And I’d probably venture to put S above OG as well.

7 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

The Packers should have gone to the NFCCG (and maybe the SB this year). We didn't fail because we had Valentine and Nixon in the secondary or a group of young WRs, etc. If anything, we failed because Tom got hurt and we then failed to score on the last 4 drives of the game after he went out. Our OL got just a hint weaker and it probably cost us the game. We saw the same thing play out in 2020 and even 2021 with some of the issues we had there following Bak's injury. Having a rock solid starting 5 (or even 6) OL is so critical in the playoffs.  

Don’t get me wrong, losing Zach Tom hurt.  No doubt about that.  But the OL wasn’t the reason why the Packers lost IMO.  Nick Bosa feasted once Zach Tom was out of the game.  But he accounted for 5 of the 6 QB hits.  They had 0 sacks, and Green Bay averaged 5.3 YPC.  The Packers’ OL played well in spite of losing Zach Tom early.  The missed FG was probably a bigger issue than the IOL play.

12 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

If it comes down to Rhyan + 1st round CB vs. 1st round RG + Valentine...which one is more value there? I don't think it's as clear as you think. All I'm saying is, I wouldn't mind that pick whatsoever. I'm not pounding the table either way.

But it goes back to the bigger issue, are you more likely to find a quality cornerback early on in Day 3 or a quality IOL on Day 3?  The answer is pretty clearly IOL.

[vegas492]

10 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I don't think any of this really matters at pick 25. You're not talking top 10 here. In today's NFL, there's no safe space on the OL. It's like saying, hey we'll put the worst player in right field in baseball. Teams move their best pass rushers around more than they ever have in the past. Parsons, Hutchinson, Crosby...those guys line up over guards to create mismatches. 

And there's a lot more help to cover a guard than there is a tackle.  Tons more.

I agree that with where we pick, all bets could be off, improving a starting spot is improving a starting spot.

That's why I'm not violently opposed to it.  But I know there will be better value, for sure than going IOL in the first round.

Now...drafting a tackle that can convert or push for a tackle job?  Now I'm more interested.  

 

[CWood21]

15 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I'd probably agree...and it cost them a ring. You have a better interior to control Jones on a few of those rushes and SF wins in regulation. 

Elite players are going to win more often than not.  Chris Jones wrecks most OLs.

[CWood21]

11 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

I don't think any of this really matters at pick 25. You're not talking top 10 here. In today's NFL, there's no safe space on the OL. It's like saying, hey we'll put the worst player in right field in baseball. Teams move their best pass rushers around more than they ever have in the past. Parsons, Hutchinson, Crosby...those guys line up over guards to create mismatches. 

The difference is OTs are usually on an island.  OGs aren’t.

[vegas492]

4 minutes ago, squire12 said:

And you can get great value at any position later as well.  Tramon Williams and Sam Shields were UDFA players.  Snead was a 4th for KC.  Ward for SF was a UDFA.

True.

But I would rather draft corners in the first than roll the dice trying to find the next Tramon or Sam.

And I think it is much easier to find starting guards outside of the first round.

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

And there's a lot more help to cover a guard than there is a tackle.  Tons more.

I agree that with where we pick, all bets could be off, improving a starting spot is improving a starting spot.

That's why I'm not violently opposed to it.  But I know there will be better value, for sure than going IOL in the first round.

Now...drafting a tackle that can convert or push for a tackle job?  Now I'm more interested.  

 

Jordan Morgan would fit that mold. He's been a popular mocked guy in the early stages. The reason I brought up Barton (who could probably play all 3 positions) or Powers (OG or OC) is because Myers is up next year. 

[CWood21]

8 minutes ago, squire12 said:

And you can get great value at any position later as well.  Tramon Williams and Sam Shields were UDFA players.  Snead was a 4th for KC.  Ward for SF was a UDFA.

Look less at the exceptions when trying to come to a conclusion.

[vegas492]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

Jordan Morgan would fit that mold. He's been a popular mocked guy in the early stages. The reason I brought up Barton (who could probably play all 3 positions) or Powers (OG or OC) is because Myers is up next year. 

Yeah, I like Morgan.  I haven't looked at Barton yet.

I'll let someone else take Powers.

But that's what I like.  Taking a guy with flexibility to play tackle or convert to guard versus a pure G or C in round one.

Maybe Powers is really that good, I don't really know.

And personally, I feel like Myers is going to be extended and be our center for a while.

[VonKarman]

Get IOL/OBLB/S in the FA. Draft OT/WR/ER/CB with your top picks.

[Mazrimiv]

16 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Look less at the exceptions when trying to come to a conclusion.

The exception would probably be GB hitting on a high CB pick.  Off the top of my head: King, Jackson, Randall and Rollins were all regrettable RD1/RD2 picks at CB within the past decade or so. The jury is still out on Stokes, but it doesn't look especially promising.  In the past 10 years, has GB hit on a high CB pick other than JA?  They've sure tried.