***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[fretgod99]

I thought Luke tossing the saber was absolutely perfect. 1000% what that character would do in context. Completely fitting for a man who has tried very hard to leave every shred of that part of his life behind him.

[Calvert28]

11 minutes ago, FosterTheSkins said:

Colin Trevorrow was under contract to direct Episode IX until he got sacked.  And Kathleen Kennedy the person in charge of all the Star Wars movies thinks TLJ is great which is why she entrusted Johnson with his own trilogy.  That's part of the reason JJ was brought back for the final installment.  KK will fire a director on the spot if she feels a movies not up to standards (see Rogue One and the Han Solo film) so if IX goes in a way she doesn't like she'll get someone who will meet her standards.  And she said before the movie was finished it would divide the fan base but let Johnson do his own thing.

And VIII followed up VII well.  All the characters were taken to their next logical conclusions:  Rey learn to stop waiting all her life for her parents and found belonging elsewhere with people who do love and value her; Kylo broke free of his master and realized what he wanted didn't make him happy; Finn overcame his fear of FO and rushed head first in fighting them even willing to risk his own life in the process; Poe realized he can't rush into battle head first and think things out, becoming a real leader.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/11/disneys-bullying-tactics-against-the-press-failed/545237/

Don't give me this crap about how anyone in Hollywood especially with Disney recently can speak their minds freely without fear of backlash from a major company. Companies have ended countless careers because those people didn't say the right thing. You saying that that there is some sort of standard or integrity involved? WTF ever. The only standard that has ever been constant at Disney or really hollywood especially since the 70's (the days that gave rise to the Blockbusters) is the bottom dollar. 

And no the characters were not followed up well. Rey being a Jedi Master basically from no lessons and being a nobody is not following up her character well. She has no development outside of one minor outlook which was explained in piss poor fashion from non fans who made the movie and many casual ones who watched it. Kylo is still worthless and is far closer in comparison to Cobra Commander then he is to Darth Vader. Finn went on a PETA mission and found himself inner strength and was ok to let the Resistance die so long as he could save some catdog horses. Poe did a 180 change in character in a matter of a instant after a very short conversation with Leia. 

The movie was not great. 

[Calvert28]

25 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

I thought Luke tossing the saber was absolutely perfect. 1000% what that character would do in context. Completely fitting for a man who has tried very hard to leave every shred of that part of his life behind him.

It would have been fine if Rian Johnson had directed the first one and built it up that way. That is not the way it was handled. That's why it was a problem. Even with the humor of it. 

[fretgod99]

3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

It would have been fine if Rian Johnson had directed the first one and built it up that way. That is not the way it was handled. That's why it was a problem. Even with the humor of it. 

How does that make it any different? Either you’re fine with it or you’re not.

[Calvert28]

28 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Lulz. So salty. You’re so mad that people like the movie. Sorry they didn’t write it the way you would have. This one’s much more interesting. Sounds like you and loads of other people wanted what would have amounted to an ESB clone, which is odd considering all complaints about TFA being an homage to ANH.

Oh I forgot. It has no depth, when there is depth there takes a time to understand it. That confuses and pisses people off, when it's shallow and has a bunch of explosions and witty dialogue people are willing overlook any number of things like plot holes, lack of character development, switching stories from the first one. Like a Michael Bay or James Cameron movie. 

 

[fretgod99]

Every movie has plot holes. Plot holes are just a thing. Not all of them are bad. These characters developed. You just don’t like how they developed because it didn’t match what you wanted to see. You don’t know how much stories were switched because you don’t know what answers were intended to be given. So, whatever. You didn’t like the movie. Cool story.

[Calvert28]

Just now, fretgod99 said:

How does that make it any different? Either you’re fine with it or you’re not.

Because that's not how the picture was painted in the last movie of Luke Skywalker. You don't take script and disregard the previous one entirely to do your own thing. 

Michael Gambon pissed alot of people off because he did that exact same thing with Dumbledore in the Harry potter series. Saying he never bothered to research the character or watch the previous movies to learn the mannerisms and such. He just did what he wanted with the character. 

[fretgod99]

“Snoke's fate came entirely out of Kylo's arc and realizing that in this movie the most interesting thing to me was for Kylo to be ascendant - to start by knocking the shaky foundation out from Kylo's feet and then building him back up into a complicated but credible villain by the end of it. And one that Rey now has a more complex relationship with than just "I hate you, I want to kill you."

And once I kind of landed on that, it quickly became evident that, OK, what is Snoke's place in this? If I build Kylo up to that point, the most interesting thing to carry into the next movie is Kylo running things, not any echo of the emperor/pupil relationship. And you realize the dramatic potential of that, and it just makes a lot of sense from the story point of view.” per the writer/director.

Do with that what you will.

[fretgod99]

1 minute ago, Calvert28 said:

Because that's not how the picture was painted in the last movie of Luke Skywalker. You don't take script and disregard the previous one entirely to do your own thing. 

Michael Gambon pissed alot of people off because he did that exact same thing with Dumbledore in the Harry potter series. Saying he never bothered to research the character or watch the previous movies to learn the mannerisms and such. He just did what he wanted with the character. 

And what picture was painted if Luke in TFA that would have changed how Luke would have reacted? Luke didn’t want to be found. Luke wasn’t part of the Resistance. And Luke didn’t see TFA, so how would he know his reaction was inappropriate? Did you want him to be Yoda or something?

[Calvert28]

Just now, fretgod99 said:

Every movie has plot holes. Plot holes are just a thing. Not all of them are bad. These characters developed. You just don’t like how they developed because it didn’t match what you wanted to see. You don’t know how much stories were switched because you don’t know what answers were intended to be given. So, whatever. You didn’t like the movie. Cool story.

Glad you finally admit it. But trilogies at least most take the time to fill plot holes. Especially major ones. The characters aren't developed, where do you even get that idea from? Ren is no different then he was in TFA, the only thing that has changed is Snoke is out of the picture. Hux is actually less of a character now. Same with Rey who has not changed at all. The only characters who have arguably any change to them is Finn and Poe. And Poe developed his change after having one line said to him. And not knowing what answers were gonna be given is not the point. It is deliberately implying certain answers are coming and changing everything up to tell an entirely different story. 

[fretgod99]

“If [Luke] comes in as just an optimistic fighter for the good guys, that gives Rey nothing to bounce up against - that's just an older version of Rey. So it's not what Mark had in his head initially, and that's why he's spoken very openly about his being caught off guard by the script and where the character ends up. But I knew this is where it had to be. We got into the conversations, and we got into the work, and we talked, and we argued, and we discussed, and that process ended up being very good for the character and also for our working relationship. It was a very good one.”

[Calvert28]

4 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

“Snoke's fate came entirely out of Kylo's arc and realizing that in this movie the most interesting thing to me was for Kylo to be ascendant - to start by knocking the shaky foundation out from Kylo's feet and then building him back up into a complicated but credible villain by the end of it. And one that Rey now has a more complex relationship with than just "I hate you, I want to kill you."

And once I kind of landed on that, it quickly became evident that, OK, what is Snoke's place in this? If I build Kylo up to that point, the most interesting thing to carry into the next movie is Kylo running things, not any echo of the emperor/pupil relationship. And you realize the dramatic potential of that, and it just makes a lot of sense from the story point of view.” per the writer/director.

Do with that what you will.

OMG Fretgod99 thats amazing what he wanted to do with it, except the only thing he did was kill Snoke. His facedown with Luke was no different and showed no signs of growth then he was when he faced off with Rey and Finn in the forest. Him screaming for them to fire at Luke and screaming for more and more is no different then him slashing up the room Rey escaped from. Show me the progress of his character bring up examples. Him being in charge is not character development. Give me solid examples. 

[fretgod99]

3 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Glad you finally admit it. But trilogies at least most take the time to fill plot holes. Especially major ones. The characters aren't developed, where do you even get that idea from? Ren is no different then he was in TFA, the only thing that has changed is Snoke is out of the picture. Hux is actually less of a character now. Same with Rey who has not changed at all. The only characters who have arguably any change to them is Finn and Poe. And Poe developed his change after having one line said to him. And not knowing what answers were gonna be given is not the point. It is deliberately implying certain answers are coming and changing everything up to tell an entirely different story. 

Glad I finally admitted what? What am I “finally admitting” that I denied before?

You don’t like how the characters developed. That doesn’t mean they didn’t develop.

Knowing the answers does matter. You said that wasn’t an appropriate reaction for Luke. Why? What reaction was better? What reaction for Luke was better? What reaction for Luke based off of what we know about him from TFA was better?

[Calvert28]

5 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

And what picture was painted if Luke in TFA that would have changed how Luke would have reacted? Luke didn’t want to be found. Luke wasn’t part of the Resistance. And Luke didn’t see TFA, so how would he know his reaction was inappropriate? Did you want him to be Yoda or something?

Because the characters themselves all built it up to Luke seeking some deeper knowledge to help him. To fix things. That's why he left. That is not the Luke that was presented. And it was not even presented as "Hey did come here to do that, but found nothing and instead gave up hope." it was (this was my plan all along to just let the Galaxy burn). Rian destroyed his character to build up a nobody. 

[Calvert28]

2 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Glad I finally admitted what? What am I “finally admitting” that I denied before?

You don’t like how the characters developed. That doesn’t mean they didn’t develop.

Knowing the answers does matter. You said that wasn’t an appropriate reaction for Luke. Why? What reaction was better? What reaction for Luke was better? What reaction for Luke based off of what we know about him from TFA was better?

Something you weren't even willing to acknowledge before. 

I don't? Because im pretty sure I watched TFA and multiple times at that to see what the character were made to do. No they did not develop.

Actually no it does not. Because as a reader or a viewer the appeal is seeing a story flow and weave and whined to its inevitable conclusion. With some bumps and strong currents to give it some excitement along the way. This was not that, this was boating down the mississippi then it doing a 180 and turning into the Nile.