***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[JonStark]

6 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Considering everything she has accomplished with her force powers which far and away eclipses anything Ren has done. She might as well be. Yea Luke pretty much said with his last lines that she was the last jedi and there was a cutscene to her. I think your missing the entire point of me bringing her up as a Jedi Master and it has nothing to do with her not being one. 

Why do people keep bringing up Anakin Skywalker to compare to Rey? Yall dont know what your talking about. All this preaching about hey wait for the last movie to come out by yall's side. We have no idea who Rey's parents are. Then we are told they are nobodys and so is she so that makes her comparable to Anakin. It does not, not in the least. Anakin only had one parent. With a thousand different theories of how he came to be. But it was deliberate to show just how special he is. Anakin was never a nobody he was never meant to be a nobody, he was never going to be a nobody. Stop saying this people. He was called the Chosen One for a reason, had a prophecy that was like thousands of years old and everything. The 6 first movies explained this.

I think there will always be a "Chosen One" that is made to bring balance to the force. With the Jedi arguably winning in the prequels, Anakin's purpose was to balance it more in the dark side's favor. Who's to say that Rey isn't the new Chosen One to balance it again? You said it yourself, the first 6 movies explained Anakin's backstory and purpose. We've only had two of Rey...

[Deadpulse]

This thread is exhausting. @Calvert28, you think you could consolidate your posts? I see five in a row from you and just think... Im too old for this ish. 

[fretgod99]

7 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Yeaaaaa pretty sure Palpatine got one and was intended to be given one as well considering the way the OT was handled. H/e we dont get that luxury with this new one. So Snoke had to have had some. I mean Obi-Wan got one, as did Yoda. 

Palp had a backstory in the OT? Really? Where? Pretty sure he was a completely static obstacle to be overcome by Luke and Vader. Oh, it was implied he had a backstory? And that backstory was later filled in almost 20 years later when a completely different set of movies was released? Wow, you’re right. That’s great story telling right there. His backstory and lack thereof had no impact on Vader’s arc in RotJ.

In all your whining about how Snoke should have been Palp 2.0 (while also complaining that TFA was just ANH 2.0) you didn’t realize that you actually got what you wanted: a superficially interesting character whose only real story purpose is to serve as an obstacle to be overcome by another character. You’re just upset it happened in installment 2 unstead of 3.

[fretgod99]

I’m wondering why people keep saying Rey did stuff Luke and Vader couldn’t do. Because she picked up a bunch of rocks? Are we assuming that Luke’s failed attempt to lift a rock in ESB was the last time he tried to Force Lift anything?

Also, why are people assuming Poe changed because someone said one line to him as opposed to someone making a poignant statement that puts everything that occurred before it into perspective? He didn’t have a change of heart because someone said the magic words. He finally recognized the impact he’s had, that it wasn’t always good, and that maybe he alone doesn’t have all the answers. Just because he had a Eureka! moment doesn’t mean that moment was all that went into it.

[fretgod99]

7 hours ago, MrDrew said:

When did she become a Jedi Master? There's been nothing to say she's even a Jedi yet. She has skills, and is learning to use powers, but nothing ever said she's a Jedi Master.

You say she's a nobody like it's a fact right now. The Sith lie to get what they want, and have since these movies started. We also have another movie to figure out if it's true. Even if it is, what's the problem with that? Anakin Skywalker was a nobody. 

Welcome to the party. It’s, uh ... it’s not a very fun party. But, you know, thanks for coming.

[Mox]

53 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

I’m wondering why people keep saying Rey did stuff Luke and Vader couldn’t do. Because she picked up a bunch of rocks? Are we assuming that Luke’s failed attempt to lift a rock in ESB was the last time he tried to Force Lift anything?

Also, why are people assuming Poe changed because someone said one line to him as opposed to someone making a poignant statement that puts everything that occurred before it into perspective? He didn’t have a change of heart because someone said the magic words. He finally recognized the impact he’s had, that it wasn’t always good, and that maybe he alone doesn’t have all the answers. Just because he had a Eureka! moment doesn’t mean that moment was all that went into it.

I don't mind Rey being powerful. Who knows if she's actually stronger than Luke or Vader at the same stage and tbh I don't really care. The problem is she's so good at these things without being trained. She succeeds at everything on her first try. Through two movies Luke trained with Obi-Wan/Yoda and had a time jump. Anakin was trained by Obi-Wan and the Jedi council for years. You could reasonably assume that after two movies, Rey has known about her powers for less than a week. While you could argue Luke's training was brief, he showed struggle and certainly received more tutelage that Rey did. It's not a major concern by any means, just an annoyance.

[StLunatic88]

What is becoming more and more clear to me, most people who are bashing this film, all of their complaints really stem from the non-story we got in TFA.

JJ set up a bunch of stuff with no answers in mind and just said "someone else figure it out". And no one stopped to critically look at what TFA actually presented to us as a work of Film because we all had too much of a Star Wars boner, and were having too much fun creating our own head cannon to acknowledge the problems that approach sets up.

Now its all coming out "TLJ didnt answer any of the questions the way I wanted" while the real problem should have been realized that TFA was all questions, and Zero answers other than Star Wars is back. It was set up as a 3 part movie, but with different directors, without any coherent mapped out plan from start to finish.

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

I don't mind Rey being powerful. Who knows if she's actually stronger than Luke or Vader at the same stage and tbh I don't really care. The problem is she's so good at these things without being trained. She succeeds at everything on her first try. Through two movies Luke trained with Obi-Wan/Yoda and had a time jump. Anakin was trained by Obi-Wan and the Jedi council for years. You could reasonably assume that after two movies, Rey has known about her powers for less than a week. While you could argue Luke's training was brief, he showed struggle and certainly received more tutelage that Rey did. It's not a major concern by any means, just an annoyance.

What has she shown to be so good at? She mind tricked after a few tries a lowly storm trooper. She fought off a severely injured Kylo Ren after initially struggling against him. She fought off non-force users with Kylo's help (Kylo was 3 on 1 at one point while Rey had her hands full with one). She lifted some rocks. Doesn't seem like a great resume to me. 

[StLunatic88]

3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

What has she shown to be so good at? She mind tricked after a few tries a lowly storm trooper. She fought off a severely injured Kylo Ren after initially struggling against him. She fought off non-force users with Kylo's help (Kylo was 3 on 1 at one point while Rey had her hands full with one). She lifted some rocks. Doesn't seem like a great resume to me. 

HEY! Stop pointing out facts! Let me argue my straw-man because its the only way I can be mad that they didnt make the movie exactly the way I wanted

ALL of these things Rey has already done in two movies are clearly WAY more powerful than anything Luke did! Like using the force to direct Proton Torpedoes to the one precise spot in order to blow up the Death Star and save the entire galaxy as his first real use of said Force. Why cant they take their time with her training Like I miss-remember it happening in the Original Trilogy!

[Mox]

13 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

What has she shown to be so good at? She mind tricked after a few tries a lowly storm trooper. She fought off a severely injured Kylo Ren after initially struggling against him. She fought off non-force users with Kylo's help (Kylo was 3 on 1 at one point while Rey had her hands full with one). She lifted some rocks. Doesn't seem like a great resume to me. 

Downplaying her achievements aside, it's still a hell of a lot more than Luke did at the same stage despite him actually being trained.

[MKnight82]

15 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

What is becoming more and more clear to me, most people who are bashing this film, all of their complaints really stem from the non-story we got in TFA.

JJ set up a bunch of stuff with no answers in mind and just said "someone else figure it out". And no one stopped to critically look at what TFA actually presented to us as a work of Film because we all had too much of a Star Wars boner, and were having too much fun creating our own head cannon to acknowledge the problems that approach sets up.

Now its all coming out "TLJ didnt answer any of the questions the way I wanted" while the real problem should have been realized that TFA was all questions, and Zero answers other than Star Wars is back. It was set up as a 3 part movie, but with different directors, without any coherent mapped out plan from start to finish.

This is the complete opposite of how I feel.  The Force Awakens was an origin story, which is perfect for the opening movie for a new trilogy.  The second movie should answer some questions, leave some unresolved, and set up the final act.  Instead, the Last Jedi pretty much undid everything the origin story set up.  Beyond that, it basically wiped out pretty much everything we know about the Jedi from the original 6 movies as well.  That isn't continuing the story, is a deconstruction of everything we've already seen onscreen.  You can't just take 7 movies worth of lore, wipe them out in the 8th movie and then hope for some kind of duct taped together resolution in the 9th.  

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

This is the complete opposite of how I feel.  The Force Awakens was an origin story, which is perfect for the opening movie for a new trilogy.  The second movie should answer some questions, leave some unresolved, and set up the final act.  Instead, the Last Jedi pretty much undid everything the origin story set up.  Beyond that, it basically wiped out pretty much everything we know about the Jedi from the original 6 movies as well.  That isn't continuing the story, is a deconstruction of everything we've already seen onscreen.  You can't just take 7 movies worth of lore, wipe them out in the 8th movie and then hope for some kind of duct taped together resolution in the 9th.  

You should not be treating the 3 movies as a whole. ESPECIALLY when you Knew there would be multiple directors. Each should be telling their own story, while having some major arching through lines. That is how you end up with messes in Franchises (its the Major thing that Marvel has done right). Did A New Hope not tell its own stand alone story? Yes there were plans for the future and things left to build upon. but you dont NEED Empire and Jedi in order to watch the Original. 

[MrDrew]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

Beyond that, it basically wiped out pretty much everything we know about the Jedi from the original 6 movies as well.

I really don't understand what was wiped out. I personally don't see that, but I would like to know why you would. I do see some things that maybe changed some things that we know, but I took it as learning over time.

[MKnight82]

4 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

You should not be treating the 3 movies as a whole. ESPECIALLY when you Knew there would be multiple directors. Each should be telling their own story, while having some major arching through lines. That is how you end up with messes in Franchises (its the Major thing that Marvel has done right). Did A New Hope not tell its own stand alone story? Yes there were plans for the future and things left to build upon. but you dont NEED Empire and Jedi in order to watch the Original. 

This is so short sighted.  We are living in the age of cinematic universes.  Star Wars has always had its own lore built over multiple movies.  Star Wars has its stand alone movies, first with Rogue One and the Han Solo movie is coming soon.  The Last Jedi isn't a stand alone movie.  Episode VIII is specifically designed to be an extension of an existing story that has been told for decades now.  It completely failed as an extension of that story IMO.

 

[MKnight82]

5 minutes ago, MrDrew said:

I really don't understand what was wiped out. I personally don't see that, but I would like to know why you would. I do see some things that maybe changed some things that we know, but I took it as learning over time.

I saw the movie on Monday, and my immediate reaction was that I didn't really like the movie that much.  I didn't come in here and post about it because I wasn't really sure about why I didn't like the movie, but after some time I think I've figured out why.  I didn't like this movie because I felt like it didn't advance the story along, it just undid the entire story from Force Awakens.  Basically the Force Awakens is an entirely irrelevant movie now. 

- Snoke was set up as the mastermind behind the First Order in FA, he's killed off in TLJ with absolutely no backstory. 

- The entire Resistance is pretty much dead.  

- The entire story of Force Awakens basically revolves around the idea of finding Luke Skywalker.  In TLJ we find out that not only does Luke not want to be found, but he doesn't really end up teaching Rey anything.  

- Rey can move rocks now I guess?  Other than that she's the exact same lost girl with no understanding of the force.  

- General Hux went from a strong evil villain to a punch line.  

- Kylo Ren's character development was completely botched imo.  He's basically a power hungry brat a the start of FA, then he kills his father at the end and is supposed to report to Snoke to complete his training.  In TLJ he refuses to kill his mother and Rey, so he's basically back to just being a power hungry brat at the end.  TLJ didn't advance his character development they went backwards with it. 

To me its painfully obvious these two movies were written and directed by two different people, and apparently the second person wanted to undo practically everything the first person wrote.