***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[fretgod99]

2 minutes ago, sunnygsm said:

Come on man. Those force chokes never really came across as funny at all. It showed that you don't mess with Vader. 

Right. And what are the big laugh moments with Hux? Poe being Poe and what else, him trying to assert a bit of authority at the end after Ren has already cowed him? Ren’s interactions with him are two men jockeying for favor. Ren wins. He’s not nearly the laughing stock people are claiming here. And Hux was never supposed to be Tarkin, anyway.

[Deadpulse]

41 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

She mind tricked after a few tries a lowly storm trooper- It's not like it's something we commonly see. Certainly not from a beginner. Also something Luke doesn't do until his third movie, and something he still fails at in episode 6. Rey succeeds 5 minutes after learns she has powers. That's a bit much

She fought off a severely injured Kylo Ren after initially struggling against him-You ignore that she also won this battle, would've killed him had the ground not separated and had never used a lightsaber before against someone Luke personally trained. I understand he was injured but he wasn't dying. Luke gets wrecked by Vader and loses an arm despite receiving at least a little training from two masters. Is it the most unbelievable thing that's ever happened? No, but it would've made more sense to end it a different way

She fought off non-force users with Kylo's help-Fair, though I assume they were powerful if they were Snoke's guard and they were also giving Kylo trouble

She lifted some rocks-Even you have to admit your downplaying here. She lifted tens of thousands of pounds worth of weight...somehow. It's actually a cool visual and moment but it's pretty ridiculous too. Luke couldn't even lift his ship with Yoda teaching him

I know you didn't bring it up, someone else did, but the trench run is hilarious to use as a pro for Luke and evidence of someone not actually watching the movie. I haven't seen Episode 4 in years and I know for a fact that Luke wasn't the first person to hit the target, had Obi-Wan helping him and he was still going to get killed by Vader until Han saved him. Luke always struggled/failed at first and when he succeeded he always had help. Rey doesn't have those moments. She does all of these things on her own (except the Snoke's guard battle).

If you can't see the difference between the two there is no point in arguing. We aren't going to agree. I'm not saying it's mind boggling how good she is, or that it ruins the movies, just that it's annoying at how she succeeds at everything on her first try when it took everyone else a lot more time. There is a reason she has the Mary Sue moniker tossed at her and Luke doesn't.

Mind tricking seems like a rudimentary thing to do if its someone susceptible. When did Luke fail at it? When he tried it against Jaba? Not even Yoda could mind trick yoda.

 

Kylo was DEFINITELY dying before that fight. He took a crossbow blaster to the abdomen STRAIGHT. That kills anyone not in tuned with the force immediately. They spent the whole movie establishing that weapon as devastating. He was bleeding out at the very least, the fact that he was up and moving let alone fighting is AMAZING. He was likely focusing a lot of energy, force wise, on his wound. 

 

The force lifting is impressive, but Luke was decent at this pretty quickly as well while not showing as much raw power as Rey. I also think Luke had a TON more hang ups about the Force than Rey did, mentally blocking him. 

[sunnygsm]

3 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Right. And what are the big laugh moments with Hux? Poe being Poe and what else, him trying to assert a bit of authority at the end after Ren has already cowed him? Ren’s interactions with him are two men jockeying for favor. Ren wins. He’s not nearly the laughing stock people are claiming here. And Hux was never supposed to be Tarkin, anyway.

Getting tossed aside in the AT-AT? The Poe sequence made him seem dim-witted. I don't need him to be Tarkin. But this guy is leading the first order should have some competency. He should be able to challenge an inexperienced, albeit more powerful, Kylo. At this point, he's about as threatening as Phasma. 

[fretgod99]

3 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Mind tricking seems like a rudimentary thing to do if its someone susceptible. When did Luke fail at it? When he tried it against Jaba? Not even Yoda could mind trick yoda.

Jabba isn’t weak-minded, so it doesn’t work on him. Thus Luke fails. Watto isn’t weak-minded, so QGJ similarly fails. Rey succeeds on her third attempt against a garden variety storm trooper.

[Deadpulse]

4 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Jabba isn’t weak-minded, so it doesn’t work on him. Thus Luke fails. Watto isn’t weak-minded, so QGJ similarly fails. Rey succeeds on her third attempt against a garden variety storm trooper.

albeit James Bond storm trooper

[MKnight82]

IMO these are some things they could have done better to make the Last Jedi better:

- There should of been a time jump from the end of FA.  You could of had Luke training Rey for several months, which would explain why she's becoming more powerful with the force.  They also wouldn't have had to shoehorn Finn onto the Resistance ship and have to escape from the imperial blockade (which seemed really improbable).  Finn could have been somewhere else and Poe could have gotten him a message to come help.  Kylo Ren could have received his final training from Snoke (which was how FA ended) making him even more powerful.  The lack of a time jump was a big mistake IMO.  

- Significantly cut back the humor attempts.  

- Luke should have come back with Rey and Chewy to help the Resistance.  

- Kylo Ren as leader of the FO is a waste of his character.  He should have turned on Snoke just like he did, but Snoke should have stopped him.  Then you could of had Snoke still as the leader of the FO, Rey as the leader of the light side, and Kylo Ren then could have fled and become a rogue element acting only towards his own interests.  

- Finn should have sacrificed himself taking out the big cannon to save them.  

 

[fretgod99]

2 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

albeit James Bond storm trooper

Fair. Amended: Garden variety sexy spy storm trooper.

[fretgod99]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

- Luke should have come back with Rey and Chewy to help the Resistance. 

All of this sounds like the Pet Theory stuff. But this in particular I completely disagree with. 1. Luke does eventually help the Resistance. 2. Luke happily coming back ignores everything we know and learned about him in TFA. He ran off and hid on purpose, why would he turn around and come back? I understand wanting Luke to come in and be a Jedi Master BA, but we got that and more importantly, this story isn’t about Luke. Having Luke come in and save the day isn’t new. We’ve seen that story. Why tell it again? The whole point of this new trilogy is to tell the tales of the next generation of heroes.

[MKnight82]

8 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

All of this sounds like the Pet Theory stuff. But this in particular I completely disagree with. 1. Luke does eventually help the Resistance. 2. Luke happily coming back ignores everything we know and learned about him in TFA. He ran off and hid on purpose, why would he turn around and come back? I understand wanting Luke to come in and be a Jedi Master BA, but we got that and more importantly, this story isn’t about Luke. Having Luke come in and save the day isn’t new. We’ve seen that story. Why tell it again? The whole point of this new trilogy is to tell the tales of the next generation of heroes.

Because Leia needed him?  Because Han was murdered?  Because the Senate which was bringing peace to the galaxy while he was gone was just wiped out?  Because his apprentice was murdering innocent people?  Because the Resistance needed him?  Because Rey needed him?  

[MrDrew]

50 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

- Finn should have sacrificed himself taking out the big cannon to save them.  

 

Finn was sacrificing himself. Somebody else stopped it.

This is actually character building for Finn. He was a Stormtrooper. He didn't have people that cared about him. He only knew the mission. Now he not only has people he cares about, he sees somebody that was willing to sacrifice themselves to save him. This is going to move him forward as a person, pushing him further from being a Stormtrooper. 

[INbengalfan]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Mind tricking seems like a rudimentary thing to do if its someone susceptible. When did Luke fail at it? When he tried it against Jaba? Not even Yoda could mind trick yoda.

 

Kylo was DEFINITELY dying before that fight. He took a crossbow blaster to the abdomen STRAIGHT. That kills anyone not in tuned with the force immediately. They spent the whole movie establishing that weapon as devastating. He was bleeding out at the very least, the fact that he was up and moving let alone fighting is AMAZING. He was likely focusing a lot of energy, force wise, on his wound. 

 

The force lifting is impressive, but Luke was decent at this pretty quickly as well while not showing as much raw power as Rey. I also think Luke had a TON more hang ups about the Force than Rey did, mentally blocking him. 

Is it remotely possible that we see rey force lifting the entire pile of rocks, not as a show of Force mastery, but done in a stylistic way so we aren't also forced to watch her do it one stone at a time?  This move took 10 seconds in a 2.5 hour long movie.

 

Similarly, is it that Rey and Ren weren't really trained by Like/Snoke, or more like they chose not to show it?  For all I know, Rey could have been on that island for weeks.  Elapsed time has never been an important thing in this universe.  Does anyone think that Luke blew up the first Death Star a day after meeting Han Solo in Mos Eisley?

[MKnight82]

24 minutes ago, MrDrew said:

Finn was sacrificing himself. Somebody else stopped it.

This is actually character building for Finn. He was a Stormtrooper. He didn't have people that cared about him. He only knew the mission. Now he not only has people he cares about, he sees somebody that was willing to sacrifice themselves to save him. This is going to move him forward as a person, pushing him further from being a Stormtrooper. 

I just thought it would have made a bigger impact if he had fallen.  But its Disney.  

[fretgod99]

1 hour ago, MKnight82 said:

Because Leia needed him?  Because Han was murdered?  Because the Senate which was bringing peace to the galaxy while he was gone was just wiped out?  Because his apprentice was murdering innocent people?  Because the Resistance needed him?  Because Rey needed him?  

Leia needed him before. Han murdered, ok. But Ren murdering a bunch of padawan is what sent him into isolation in the first place. The Resistance needed him before he went into hiding. Rey needed him in this story and it didn’t convince him. Again, potential Jedi needing his training is what resulted in his isolation. Is that a way it could have gone? Sure. But it’s honestly a far less interesting character arc for Luke to simply be the same Jedi Savior after all these years and after all these tragedies. It wouldn’t honestly make much sense. Him being a broken old man regretting his mistakes makes for a better story.

And don’t forget, he did turn around in the end. He saved what was left of the Resistance in an amazing display of power and got a fitting end.

[MKnight82]

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-the-last-jedi-deleted-scenes/ 

One of the biggest deleted scenes involves another lesson Luke Skywalker gives to Rey, taking place chronologically after they talk inside the cave where Luke mentions Darth Sidious. Rey notices boats arriving at the island and there appears to be a big fire from where they’re landing. Luke tells her that it is a group of bandits who regularly come back to the island to plunder and kill the caretakers. Rey is very concerned and wants to help them, but Luke tells her that if you help them now, the raiders will come back stronger and it will make things worse in the future. He asks Rey if she is always going to be here to protect them, saying that a true Jedi Knight would do nothing and would only act to maintain balance, even when people get hurt.

Rey, furious at his reasoning, ignites her lightsaber and runs really fast, a Force-powered run that we glimpsed in one of the featurettes about the making of the film (see the screenshot at the top of this article). She runs over rocks on shallow water and bursts through a door with her saber into the village square ready for battle. Luke yells for her to wait, but she doesn’t stop.

She is surprised to learn that it’s not a raiding party, but an actual party, with caretakers celebrating and swinging glow sticks. This piece of concept art from The Art of Star Wars: The Last Jedi shows what the scene looks like. The caretakers all stop and look at Rey, confused. One of the caretaker motions her her glow stick and Rey swings her lightsaber, imitating her movements, and sighs. The caretakers resume partying. Rey spots Chewbacca sitting at the party with a bunch of Porgs and R2-D2 (wearing a festive necklace). “Seriously?” Rey says to Chewie before storming out to find Luke.

Rey is mad that Luke lied to her and she confronts him. He admits that he’s sorry, but that she ran so fast and he couldn’t stop her. Rey says that she thought they were in danger and tried to do something. Luke responds, seriously this time, that that’s exactly what the resistance needs – not some old husk of a failed religion. He was again trying to teach her a lesson. Rey cries, explaining that her real friends are really dying and “that old legend of Luke Skywalker that you hate so much, I believed in it.” Luke is in shock. He realizes that he pushed her too far. Rey tells him she was wrong about believing in him and storms away.

The scene gave a further motive for Rey to want to leave the island. The caretaker party joke apparently wasn’t very funny, but the real reason the scene apparently didn’t make the final cut is that Luke ended up coming off like an even bigger *******. Even though the basic details were approved by the Lucasfilm Story Group, it somehow didn’t feel authentic to the Jedi “code”.

[Broncofan]

It's crazy how polarizing this movie is.  It's like one half of moviegoers who have real problems with the movie don't recognize the need to be fresh, original, and not necessarily be tied to full SW canon.    On the other hand, those that enjoyed the movie don't see the the problems in storytelling and consistency with some basic key SW principles (balance between light and dark not really apparent at the end, Luke being the GOAT yet deciding to kill Ben as the first option because he saw darkness, and throwing away Snoke/Phasma/etc.).    

Really, it's like most debates in FF - only 2 views hold, no in-between (and this discussion isn't just happening here, to be fair to FF).