***SPOILERS*** Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi SPOILER Thread

[fretgod99]

The fact that he murders Snoke is a step forward. You’re asking for him to be fully developed. Why? You’re complaining that Poe developed too fast but are upset Ren didn’t. Ren is less of a child in TLJ. That doesn’t mean he isn’t still rash and impetuous. Those are his character flaws. He completely loses that and he’s an entirely different character. His relationship with Rey changes and his relationship with the audience changes. We have a far clearer picture of his taste for ambition now.

[fretgod99]

5 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Because the characters themselves all built it up to Luke seeking some deeper knowledge to help him. To fix things. That's why he left. That is not the Luke that was presented. And it was not even presented as "Hey did come here to do that, but found nothing and instead gave up hope." it was (this was my plan all along to just let the Galaxy burn). Rian destroyed his character to build up a nobody. 

No, I asked why Luke shouldn’t react this why. I didn’t ask hiw ither characters thought Luke would react. What did TFA tell us about Luke? Precisely nothing, except he’s missing. We’re never told he went off to find a solution. It’s never even implied. Why was Luke’s reaction wrong then? You’re once again upset they didn’t write it your way. You’re injecting quite a bit into TFA and then criticizing TLJ for not adhering to it.

[fretgod99]

6 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Something you weren't even willing to acknowledge before. 

And what was I unwilling to acknowledge before?

[Calvert28]

Just now, fretgod99 said:

The fact that he murders Snoke is a step forward. You’re asking for him to be fully developed. Why? You’re complaining that Poe developed too fast but are upset Ren didn’t. Ren is less of a child in TLJ. That doesn’t mean he isn’t still rash and impetuous. Those are his character flaws. He completely loses that and he’s an entirely different character. His relationship with Rey changes and his relationship with the audience changes. We have a far clearer picture of his taste for ambition now.

He has murdered plenty of people. Snoke is not some big stepping stone, or at least is not presented that way in how he does things now. He's the same as he's always been. Michael Corleone shooting the Sheriff and the drug dealer in the face? You see what happens after in that he becomes more withdrawn, and cold towards everyone in the following scenes towards the end of the movie when he is finally in charge. It was development in him being something that he didn't want to be but it at least showed the effect and the type of person he was becoming.

And wow do you just not care about the way things are handled? Yea Poe was developed too fast, and Ren not at all. That's a problem. His relationship with Rey did have a slight revelation. I will give you that and only that. Because that is the only thing that happened with him. But it was far more implied to be romantic then anything. In truth they never did explain his fascination with her from the first one. There are countless other force users he could find why her?

[fretgod99]

Murdering people and murdering your mentor to ascend to the throne of the next galactic empire, furthering your goals to model yourself after your grandfather and his desire to rule the galaxy, are two entirely separate things.

[Calvert28]

19 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

No, I asked why Luke shouldn’t react this why. I didn’t ask hiw ither characters thought Luke would react. What did TFA tell us about Luke? Precisely nothing, except he’s missing. We’re never told he went off to find a solution. It’s never even implied. Why was Luke’s reaction wrong then? You’re once again upset they didn’t write it your way. You’re injecting quite a bit into TFA and then criticizing TLJ for not adhering to it.

Injecting? What does a temple mean to you? It was said Luke went in search for the first Jedi Temple. What does a temple hold? Typically when you think of a temple you think of a religion of some sorts. And what does a religion keep in a temple? Relics, statues, sacred things, even knowledge!

A beaten dog who goes to find some place to die does not pick something fancy or sacred. He picks something safe, somewhere secluded. There are countless other places in the Galaxy to go and die, there are so many ways to do it. And yet he just happened to pick a place that was considered and admitted by Luke to have sacred and secret knowledge about the Force. 

Don't give me this BS it was a justified reaction or an appropriate one. "I came here to die" Then why there of all places? Whats the point of finding the temple and those books and read them and study them if all you intended to do was just kill over?

Not to mention, if he had no intention of helping anyone and wanted to stay alone and die. He would not have left any evidence behind on how to find him. Major plothole.

[Calvert28]

5 minutes ago, fretgod99 said:

Murdering people and murdering your mentor to ascend to the throne of the next galactic empire, furthering your goals to model yourself after your grandfather and his desire to rule the galaxy, are two entirely separate things.

Mentor? Who Snoke? That nobody who doesn't even warrant a backstory or a real purpose in this one? Getterouttaaree!

Wheres the evidence he even mentored Ren? I mean this guy was just kinda ......there.

[fretgod99]

He went there because he had a crisis of conscious lost faith and wanted to leave the world behind him? Equally plausible given the conplete lack of information we’re given in TFA. Luke is missing, we don’t know why. Any speculation that he was going there to find some new fangled way to defeat the FO is completely injected. We’re told nothing of the sort, nor is anything implied. If he was doing that, he would have made it easy for the Resistance to find him. His sister, who can telepathically link to him, cannot even get a hold of him. Because he. Does. Not. Want. To. Be. Found.

Tossing his saber seems perfectly in character considering all that.

[fretgod99]

4 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Mentor? Who Snoke? That nobody who doesn't even warrant a backstory or a real purpose in this one? Getterouttaaree!

Wheres the evidence he even mentored Ren? I mean this guy was just kinda ......there.

So all of our mentors need involved back stories? Snoke is well established as Ren’s mentor. And we get a lot of their dynamic from their interactions in both movies. Acting like Ren didn’t overcome something by murdering him, given their relationship and his domineering personality towards him, makes it seem like you’re just trolling.

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, fretgod99 said:

He went there because he had a crisis of conscious lost faith and wanted to leave the world behind him? Equally plausible given the conplete lack of information we’re given in TFA. Luke is missing, we don’t know why. Any speculation that he was going there to find some new fangled way to defeat the FO is completely injected. We’re told nothing of the sort, nor is anything implied. If he was doing that, he would have made it easy for the Resistance to find him. His sister, who can telepathically link to him, cannot even get a hold of him. Because he. Does. Not. Want. To. Be. Found.

Tossing his saber seems perfectly in character considering all that.

Lol no he would have left no evidence at all to find him. Him being as gifted as he was could have accomplished that that entire movie would be wondering what happened to Luke instead of we need to find him. And yet you still side stepped the temple question. A person who wwas just content with giving life up and not to mention closing himself off from the Force as explained in the movie does not go seeking Jedi Knowledge without purpose. 

[Calvert28]

1 minute ago, fretgod99 said:

So all of our mentors need involved back stories? Snoke is well established as Ren’s mentor. And we get a lot of their dynamic from their interactions in both movies. Acting like Ren didn’t overcome something by murdering him, given their relationship and his domineering personality towards him, makes it seem like you’re just trolling.

Yeaaaaa pretty sure Palpatine got one and was intended to be given one as well considering the way the OT was handled. H/e we dont get that luxury with this new one. So Snoke had to have had some. I mean Obi-Wan got one, as did Yoda. 

And you just explained their relationship perfectly in that part in bold. And was explained in TFA by Han. "He is just using you for your power" It was not a mentor relationship. Sure he may have taught him (some) things. But its not like Plagiuis and Sidious or Yoda and Luke where there is actual development methods. Otherwise, dont you think we might have seen that? Like say when he and Rey were fighting over that lightsaber? She was still his equal, someone as powerful as Ren as admitted by her, Luke and Snoke. If Snoke had honed his skills like you have implied. How does a novice compete with that? I mean she sure as hell couldn't compete against Snoke's force powers, neither could Ren. Again another major plot hole. 

[BeaReylo]

52 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/11/disneys-bullying-tactics-against-the-press-failed/545237/

Don't give me this crap about how anyone in Hollywood especially with Disney recently can speak their minds freely without fear of backlash from a major company. Companies have ended countless careers because those people didn't say the right thing. You saying that that there is some sort of standard or integrity involved? WTF ever. The only standard that has ever been constant at Disney or really hollywood especially since the 70's (the days that gave rise to the Blockbusters) is the bottom dollar. 

And no the characters were not followed up well. Rey being a Jedi Master basically from no lessons and being a nobody is not following up her character well. She has no development outside of one minor outlook which was explained in piss poor fashion from non fans who made the movie and many casual ones who watched it. Kylo is still worthless and is far closer in comparison to Cobra Commander then he is to Darth Vader. Finn went on a PETA mission and found himself inner strength and was ok to let the Resistance die so long as he could save some catdog horses. Poe did a 180 change in character in a matter of a instant after a very short conversation with Leia. 

The movie was not great. 

Ok so what proof do you have that Abraham didn't actually mean what he said? Even though you don't like the movie a lot did.  What basis do you have that JJ was forced to say that he liked the script? 

You keep harping on about Rey becoming affluent in the force and I've explained why twice in this very thread.  And it's not something I pulled out my bum, it's in the movie.  All I did was show where the writers got the idea from and the original story they took it from.  And it makes far more sense than if she were Luke's daughter, which she is not and will never be.  Sorry mate Disneys not going to retcon that.

As I also wrote Kylo is not the big baddie in this trilogy.  So yeah he's not suppose to come across as Darth Vader 2.0 even though he desperately wants to.  He's a conflicted young man who has been taken advantage of by an evil alien his entire life, and despite that he still feels a pull of light.  The whole crux of this trilogy is him embracing the light and his relationship with Rey.

[MrDrew]

1 hour ago, Calvert28 said:

Rey being a Jedi Master basically from no lessons and being a nobody

When did she become a Jedi Master? There's been nothing to say she's even a Jedi yet. She has skills, and is learning to use powers, but nothing ever said she's a Jedi Master.

You say she's a nobody like it's a fact right now. The Sith lie to get what they want, and have since these movies started. We also have another movie to figure out if it's true. Even if it is, what's the problem with that? Anakin Skywalker was a nobody. 

[Calvert28]

3 minutes ago, FosterTheSkins said:

Ok so what proof do you have that Abraham didn't actually mean what he said? Even though you don't like the movie a lot did.  What basis do you have that JJ was forced to say that he liked the script? 

You keep harping on about Rey becoming affluent in the force and I've explained why twice in this very thread.  And it's not something I pulled out my bum, it's in the movie.  All I did was show where the writers got the idea from and the original story they took it from.  And it makes far more sense than if she were Luke's daughter, which she is not and will never be.  Sorry mate Disneys not going to retcon that.

As I also wrote Kylo is not the big baddie in this trilogy.  So yeah he's not suppose to come across as Darth Vader 2.0 even though he desperately wants to.  He's a conflicted young man who has been taken advantage of by an evil alien his entire life, and despite that he still feels a pull of light.  The whole crux of this trilogy is him embracing the light and his relationship with Rey.

Same reason im thinking a hostage with a machete to his neck is denouncing his country, government, religion, and everything else. Cause he doesn't have a freaking choice. And considering this is Disney and Hollywood we are talking about, not to mention the article I provided along with every other thing that has gone on in that town. I think my assumption hits far closer to home then the idea that these people actually speak their minds. 

And it's a crappy explanation. Sorry it is. I'll give you credit that you gave a hell of alot more then the director did. But basically saying she's Neo and believe she's the One to be able to be a badazz, that might work with a crappy trilogy like The Matrix. But Star Wars fans want more substance and detail.

Maybe he doesn't become Vader 2.0. Maybe your right, I mean hell they did 180's only plenty of things already and just completely threw out other things. Maybe they settle all of this the way Hollywood preaches and sit down at a table and talk about it. Who knows. Really it wouldn't surprise me at this point. So I wont try and refute that. 

 

[Calvert28]

2 minutes ago, MrDrew said:

When did she become a Jedi Master? There's been nothing to say she's even a Jedi yet. She has skills, and is learning to use powers, but nothing ever said she's a Jedi Master.

You say she's a nobody like it's a fact right now. The Sith lie to get what they want, and have since these movies started. We also have another movie to figure out if it's true. Even if it is, what's the problem with that? Anakin Skywalker was a nobody. 

Considering everything she has accomplished with her force powers which far and away eclipses anything Ren has done. She might as well be. Yea Luke pretty much said with his last lines that she was the last jedi and there was a cutscene to her. I think your missing the entire point of me bringing her up as a Jedi Master and it has nothing to do with her not being one. 

Why do people keep bringing up Anakin Skywalker to compare to Rey? Yall dont know what your talking about. All this preaching about hey wait for the last movie to come out by yall's side. We have no idea who Rey's parents are. Then we are told they are nobodys and so is she so that makes her comparable to Anakin. It does not, not in the least. Anakin only had one parent. With a thousand different theories of how he came to be. But it was deliberate to show just how special he is. Anakin was never a nobody he was never meant to be a nobody, he was never going to be a nobody. Stop saying this people. He was called the Chosen One for a reason, had a prophecy that was like thousands of years old and everything. The 6 first movies explained this.