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Bengals HC Marvin Lewis to leave Bengals


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1 minute ago, everlong said:

Marv's a good coach, but 0-7 in the playoffs, one of those losses being the inexcusable one in 2015, just isn't enough.

Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, maybe Chargers for a hot minute. Every other team in the AFC would have been considered a massive improvement from 2003-present if they had the success Lewis had. Like I said in other posts, he had the misfortune of coaching in the most stacked division in football for most of his tenure, the only division with multiple Super Bowl winning teams in his tenure (also the only division aside from the AFC East at least 3 wins). 

The thing is, if Lewis was the reason for any of the success the Bengals had, he could probably fare better going somewhere else where he doesn't have the competition issues and issues with questionable character players.

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5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Patriots, Colts, Steelers, Ravens, Broncos, maybe Chargers for a hot minute. Every other team in the AFC would have been considered a massive improvement from 2003-present if they had the success Lewis had. Like I said in other posts, he had the misfortune of coaching in the most stacked division in football for most of his tenure, the only division with multiple Super Bowl winning teams in his tenure (also the only division aside from the AFC East at least 3 wins). 

The thing is, if Lewis was the reason for any of the success the Bengals had, he could probably fare better going somewhere else where he doesn't have the competition issues and issues with questionable character players.

You have to beat the good teams to make it in the NFL.

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4 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Maybe because he went 11-5 in 2013, won the division, his team improved every year for the past 3-4 years, and he was in the 2nd season of a 4 season run of double digit wins. For the most part Lewis' flaw was his inability to win playoff games, but a big part of that was that he ran into the Steelers during a Super Bowl year, ran into a hot Jets team that had the best defense in football, ran into a hot Texans team twice in the early 2000's, and ran into the Colts during Luck's best year. His big failures were the loss to the Chargers and the implosion in 2015 when he SHOULD have beaten the Steelers. Aside from those two, I wouldn't really give him too much flack for the rest of his playoff issues, it was a lot of wrong place, wrong time, against the wrong person.

No offense, but thats alot of excuses for a guy who simply isnt a good coach.    Too often, it felt like he didnt have control of his team, and they lacked discipline when they needed it most.    He took chances on alot of guys over the years with very major questionable character red flags, and while some of them turned into good players, several cost them big time for various reasons.     

Is he the worst coach?  No, but I dont think he is much better than guys like John Fox and Jeff Fisher.   I think, like them, he is a "training wheels" coach....a coach who can pull a bad team out of the dumps (mainly because I think he is a good talent evaluator), but not good enough to really get that team over the hump outside of maybe getting lucky.

I think Marvin's best chance of success in this league is in a front office capacity.  Not sure anyone would give him that chance....but I think he would function better as a GM than a coach....where he is picking the talent but not leading it.   

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18 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Maybe because he went 11-5 in 2013, won the division, his team improved every year for the past 3-4 years, and he was in the 2nd season of a 4 season run of double digit wins. For the most part Lewis' flaw was his inability to win playoff games, but a big part of that was that he ran into the Steelers during a Super Bowl year, ran into a hot Jets team that had the best defense in football, ran into a hot Texans team twice in the early 2000's, and ran into the Colts during Luck's best year. His big failures were the loss to the Chargers and the implosion in 2015 when he SHOULD have beaten the Steelers. Aside from those two, I wouldn't really give him too much flack for the rest of his playoff issues, it was a lot of wrong place, wrong time, against the wrong person.

If you haven't won a playoff game in a decade... then I think it isn't unfathomable to can the head coach. The Bengals knew what they had at that point, and they blew it. Simple.

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Why do people act like the Bengals are under performing with him?  Their QB is a career backup talent that looks like a career game manager because he has a top 10 receiver to throw to.  I always think Damarious Randall looks small and he's an inch shorter and 6 pounds heavier than William Jackson (who can't be bothered to push Bell out of bounds.  I don't care how bad you think Lewis is, he's not coaching his defense to be soft.

I had to look at their roster to think of a single offensive lineman they have.  They're all either eff old, first round busts or late picks/undrafted according to PFF.  Their defense isn't exactly wildly talented and it seems they put an emphasis on poor character rather than talent as if playing dirty is somehow synonymous with playing well.  Honestly, it looks like they've got three good players.  Don't really know how well their corners are playing, but they've been dumping first round picks into the position and you don't really hear much about any of them being all that good. 

Heck, maybe it is coaching.  Looks more like no talent to me though.  They just spent a top ten pick on a wide receiver, which is a stupid move even if the receiver is good, but the receiver looks like a mega bust.  What were they planning on doing with two top 10 receivers and a QB that isn't good enough to consistently and effectively get them the ball? 

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1 minute ago, HorizontoZenith said:

Why do people act like the Bengals are under performing with him?  Their QB is a career backup talent that looks like a career game manager because he has a top 10 receiver to throw to.  I always think Damarious Randall looks small and he's an inch shorter and 6 pounds heavier than William Jackson (who can't be bothered to push Bell out of bounds.  I don't care how bad you think Lewis is, he's not coaching his defense to be soft.

I had to look at their roster to think of a single offensive lineman they have.  They're all either eff old, first round busts or late picks/undrafted according to PFF.  Their defense isn't exactly wildly talented and it seems they put an emphasis on poor character rather than talent as if playing dirty is somehow synonymous with playing well.  Honestly, it looks like they've got three good players.  Don't really know how well their corners are playing, but they've been dumping first round picks into the position and you don't really hear much about any of them being all that good. 

Heck, maybe it is coaching.  Looks more like no talent to me though.  They just spent a top ten pick on a wide receiver, which is a stupid move even if the receiver is good, but the receiver looks like a mega bust.  What were they planning on doing with two top 10 receivers and a QB that isn't good enough to consistently and effectively get them the ball? 

You're talking recently. The team hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years. The Bengals had a very good roster just a few years ago... I mean they had Green, Marvin Jones, and Sanu in their 3 WR sets, and  a healthy Eifert at TE. Still got bounced in game one.

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Just now, Nzd07 said:

You're talking recently. The team hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years. The Bengals had a very good roster just a few years ago... I mean they had Green, Marvin Jones, and Sanu in their 3 WR sets, and  a healthy Eifert at TE. Still got bounced in game one.

Good point. 

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9 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

No offense, but thats alot of excuses for a guy who simply isnt a good coach.    Too often, it felt like he didnt have control of his team, and they lacked discipline when they needed it most.    He took chances on alot of guys over the years with very major questionable character red flags, and while some of them turned into good players, several cost them big time for various reasons.     

Is he the worst coach?  No, but I dont think he is much better than guys like John Fox and Jeff Fisher.   I think, like them, he is a "training wheels" coach....a coach who can pull a bad team out of the dumps (mainly because I think he is a good talent evaluator), but not good enough to really get that team over the hump outside of maybe getting lucky.

I think Marvin's best chance of success in this league is in a front office capacity.  Not sure anyone would give him that chance....but I think he would function better as a GM than a coach....where he is picking the talent but not leading it.   

Oh we are going to have to disagree on this one. Fox failed with MUCH MUCH better teams and MUCH better talent at QB. Fisher is a flat out bad coach and his team got better when he left. 

Put it this way. I think it's far more likely Lewis goes somewhere else and succeeds at the same level or better, than the Bengals next guy in line becomes anywhere near an improvement on him.

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9 minutes ago, Nzd07 said:

If you haven't won a playoff game in a decade... then I think it isn't unfathomable to can the head coach. The Bengals knew what they had at that point, and they blew it. Simple.

Not unfathomable. But you do have to pair not winning a playoff game with him possibly being the HC who brought the Bengals to the playoffs the most and being the coach with the most wins in franchise history. And at the time he just won the division that featured both the Steelers and the defending Super Bowl champions of the previous years on a team that was trending upward. That was not the year to get rid of him.

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5 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Oh we are going to have to disagree on this one. Fox failed with MUCH MUCH better teams and MUCH better talent at QB.

????

In Carolina, his best QB was Jake Delhomme.    Outside of two seasons, Jake Delhomme was a below average starting QB.     Carson Palmer and Andy Dalton, at their respective peaks, were better than Jake Delhomme.

In Denver, Fox went 8-8 his first year with Tim Tebow as his QB and won a playoff game.    He had alot of success with Manning as his QB (who wouldnt), but couldnt get over the hump....which is exactly what I knocked him on. (although, Manning-led teams had trouble getting over the hump regardless of who was coaching. so...)

And the talent aspect....first off, I think you underestimate how talented some of the Bengals teams have been.   Secondly, even if they werent, does Lewis not deserve blame for that?

Im not saying Fox is good, but I dont see what grounds you have for acting like Marvin has been notably better,   He really hasnt.

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Fisher is a flat out bad coach and his team got better when he left. 

And he left the Rams in MUCH MUCH better shape than he inherited them in.

The Rams were one of the least talented teams for several years and were god awful for the 5 years before he took over.    He almost immediately brought them up from a trash team to a mediocre/average one.   He absolutely had some failures there, but he absolutely helped get them at least back on their feet....which again, is why I label him as a "Training wheels coach".   He couldnt get them over the hump, but he at least got them out of the gutter.   

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Put it this way. I think it's far more likely Lewis goes somewhere else and succeeds at the same level or better, than the Bengals next guy in line becomes anywhere near an improvement on him.

Thats certainly possible, but its all speculation at this point.    However,  you cant coach that long without a playoff win and keep your job...dont care who you are.   Even if you want to say its not Marvin's fault, its still time to move on to someone who might be able to do what he hasnt been able to do. 

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