53 Man Roster Projection

[AnAngryAmerican]

20 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Re: Luck, the history behind shoulder surgery is better in football players, but there are 3 problems with him that should make us stay away:

1.  He wasn't fixed right away.  The other guys with surgery had immediate fixes - Drew Brees being the most famous, Cam being the most recent (and much more of a cleanup/repair that reconstruction - Luck's surgery actually required rebuilding and suturing it back together, so more complex).   Luck was done almost 2 years after the original surgery.  His problems weren't just 1 hit, they were due to repetitive injury.

2.  He now clearly now longer follows a recovery course that's way past normal - he won't be playing or even told to throw a ball well past 1 year post-surgery.  That's not normal at all, it screams that the surgery may not have addressed the problem.

3.  Luck is now in Europe, likely getting a treatment you can't get in the US (which means likely stem cells).  That is another red flag, although #2 is even more damning.

Add it all up, we should stay far, far away from Luck.  His recovery looks more like that of a baseball pitcher (different mechanics, but the recovery course and setbacks mimic their recovery issues to a T).  For those players, this is a death sentence.   IND has to see this through, it's a sunk cost - no way we should entertain this.   This is nothing like a Peyton V2 opportunity - Peyton got fixed, the issue was the residual loss in arm strength as a result (which we saw at the very end, but even in his DEN prime, he couldn't chuck it as far or as hard as in IND).

The most likely outcome IMO is that Luck will need a re-scope - and the worst-case is that a full repair/reconstruction is still needed.   There's just way too much uncertainty, and a much higher likelihood there's a big problem still there, to take the shot given the pick/$ required. 

I'm not going to say there is no risk with Luck's shoulder but how many times did we hear "Peyton is one hit away from his career being over, signing him carries too big of a risk" when we made that move. How did that work out? 

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

I'm not going to say there is no risk with Luck's shoulder but how many times did we hear "Peyton is one hit away from his career being over, signing him carries too big of a risk" when we made that move. How did that work out? 

The cost is totally different though. Peytons only cost was the cap space. Luck will demand an absurd offer. Anyone that thinks Indianapolis will deal him for less then 3 R1 picks is living in a dream land. They would have to get a HUGE haul to justify it to the teammates and fan base. At that point, the risk begins to look substantially different.

In reality would anyone here have dealt even 2 R1 picks for Peyton coming off that surgery? Because I certainly wouldn't have. It worked out, and he was worth that cost when here, but at the time few if any would have paid that price. And arguing otherwise is pure revisionism.

[jsthomp2007]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Just another example of the brilliance of our rookie coaching staff.

If only someone at this forum said hiring a rookie HC with a thin and spotty resume  and having a rookie DC to replace a HOF DC wasn't a good idea. 

You were right...you were always right. 

Too bad, because had he bulked up, he could have spent the year learning how to play that position.  THEN, you could have had Gotsis as your run stopper and Walker as your pass rushing threat...now, you gotta wait another year. 

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I'm not going to say there is no risk with Luck's shoulder but how many times did we hear "Peyton is one hit away from his career being over, signing him carries too big of a risk" when we made that move. How did that work out? 

The difference is that Peyton's surgery usually works, and he followed the same recovery period that was expected.   His risk was getting re-injured with a big hit - not that the surgery didn't take.   And that's before we get into the cost as @BroncosFan2010 mentioned both in terms of salary (we can't afford the salary now as much as we could then) and picks (no picks were on the table with Peyton, just $)

 Luck isn't on the expected recovery timetable, there's clearly a problem - and he's not 1-2 months behind, he's shut down indefinitely.  Once you're no longer on the normal recovery period, labrum injuries are often career-killers.   THAT is a huge difference. 

[broncos67]

Yeah, Luck and Peyton aren't the same situation. Let's also remember, Peyton's contract was structured in such a way that the risk was mitigated roughly year-to-year, and for Year 1 you were looking at a 1-year deal. That will absolutely not be the same situation as Luck. I also happen to think Luck is supremely overrated. He's a good QB, but he's not a great QB. He now has this mysterious lingering labrum issue (not good for a QB) and there were some bizarre comments about him not having it "between the ears." I think he obviously makes us markedly better at QB, but at what cost? I don't know that spending a bunch of first round picks to get him helps us.

Elway needs to re-evaluate his scouting approach to QBs. We went after two big, athletic guys who didn't have to grasp complex playbooks and they both failed miserably. That strategy needs to go. If we're picking as high as we expect, we may have a choice of a few options. This needs to be taken advantage of.

[paul-mac]

Re: The QB situation.

 

When you draft a guy in round 7, as we did with Trevor Siemian, I think the aim is to develop him into a long term high end NFL backup QB. If you get more than that then it's a bonus, but if you get your backup that late then that's a good pick. Siemian for me has shown enough that I think he will be in this league for a long time as a backup. His ceiling would be the next iteration of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Josh McCown, the guys who bounce around the league as basically the last pick as starting QB.

 

Osweiler, I view his two stints with this team as being completely independent. I see him and Lynch as big armed boom/bust type guys whereas Siemian is a much more careful player, so I don't think Os or Lynch make good backups. They both have a higher ceiling than Trevor but a much lower floor.

 

Kelly is a total unknown and should be competing with a late round pick or UDFA in camp to be the 3rd QB.

 

Basically I think our 3 QBs next season should be:

 

1. Whoever Elway hand picks as our next starter, be it Taylor, Cousins or a rookie.

2. Trevor Siemian

3. Chad Kelly or another young guy

 

 

[jolly red giant]

7 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I don't like the idea of just handing Lynch the backup spot. Both Brock and Trevor seem like much better options and better locker room guys. Not that either would be mentors per se, but both are mature, professional guys that would remain involved in game planning and provide sideline input. I don't see Lynch as that type of guy.

I would offer Lynch and a R6 to some team for a future R7. Give me the 2.6M cap space over cutting Siemien. Unless Trevor has motivations to move on and try another team for a starting gig, he should be our new Kubiak. Keep him around cheap for another two seasons. Much better projection as a backup than Paxton IMO. 

If someone is willing to trade for Lynch then go for it - I can't see it happening.

[Scoundrel]

So we cut Derby. I don't agree with that move don't see how it helps us unless they are going to get Butt on the field.

[jolly red giant]

2 hours ago, Counselor said:

So we cut Derby. I don't agree with that move don't see how it helps us unless they are going to get Butt on the field.

They promoted Traylor from the PS - the question is why Derby and not Heuerman? Could it be because Elway drafted Heuerman?

saw an interview with Elway  at the Ring of Fame ceremony - thought he was less committed in his suooprt for Joseph than previously (he's a rookie etc) - but did blame the players.

[Broncofan]

5 hours ago, Counselor said:

So we cut Derby. I don't agree with that move don't see how it helps us unless they are going to get Butt on the field.

Butt's on IR, so no help there.

Basically Elway said team got "soft" - so this sends a message....supposedly.

We're soft because our OL sucks and we have zero pass rush from our interior DL...and no talent at ILB except Marshall (who's playing hurt).  Players don't get a complete pass....but a huge part of being soft is due to the personnel decisions Elway's made.    Like trading a 5th for Derby, only to cut him a year later.  Now if he clears waivers Derby can be stashed on the PS - but pretty telling how this year has gone so far.   Not like Derby is the reason our O is struggling - he’s a move TE.  I get we need a live body to be 2nd TE but the bigger issue is after the supposed steak/sizzle speed draft that was going to help right away (never a good plan FWIW)....zero help so far.  SMH.

[broncos67]

Yeah that Derby experiment was a little bit of a mess. I agree he never really materialized and had questionable hands, but I mean, who the hell was going to get him the ball? That said, not too bent out of shape about it. TE has been a walking disaster area for a long time here. Last year had a ton of good options, hopefully we got ourselves a steal in Jake Butt. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

5 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Butt's on IR, so no help there.

Basically Elway said team got "soft" - so this sends a message....supposedly.

We're soft because our OL sucks and we have zero pass rush from our interior DL...and no talent at ILB except Marshall (who's playing hurt).  Players don't get a complete pass....but a huge part of being soft is due to the personnel decisions Elway's made.    Like trading a 5th for Derby, only to cut him a year later.  Now if he clears waivers Derby can be stashed on the PS - but pretty telling how this year has gone so far.   Not like Derby is the reason our O is struggling - he’s a move TE.  I get we need a live body to be 2nd TE but the bigger issue is after the supposed steak/sizzle speed draft that was going to help right away (never a good plan FWIW)....zero help so far.  SMH.

Didn't we hear all offseason about how mean and nasty this team was going to be?

Wasn't that offered as the No.1 reason why we drafted the meathead OT in the first round?

This team is a joke. From Ellis to Elway to Russell to Vance to the whole coaching staff to the 53rd guy on the roster. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

Another Elway draft pick bites the dust. 

Broncos Waive CB Lorenzo Doss

Quote

The Broncos on Thursday waived cornerback Lorenzo Doss, a fifth-round pick in the 2015 draft. Doss played 15 games in his three seasons in Denver and recorded four tackles and two pass-breakups, all in 2016.

 

[Scoundrel]

7 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Another Elway draft pick bites the dust. 

Broncos Waive CB Lorenzo Doss

 

Happy Thanksgiving Doss

[Scoundrel]

So Oakland should pick up Doss. He gets a pick six to beat us and it will all come full circle.