What should the Raiders do at QB?

[RaidersAreOne]

1 hour ago, BetterCallSaul said:

 

I am not 100% sure what they did this offseason, but:

Their QB room is gonna be dead last in the NFL next season.

They had a dreadful run game last year and lost their top RB.

They have Adams and then bleh at WR.

They have an average TE room, but I do think Mayer can develop into a star in time.

Their OL is below average.

Their DL is looking good.

Their LB’s are average to sightly below.

Their CB’s are actually dreadful IMO.

They have solid S play.

They have amazing kickers.

I like Antonio Pierce and think he elevates their talent. 

Some of this is simply not correct tbh. 

• Jacobs was horrendous last year and when Zamir White came in late in the season, he was leading the NFL in all-purpose yards during a certain string of games. He looks like a potential star and Mattison is a solid RB2. 
• Jakobi Meyers is one of the better WR2s in the NFL. Tre Tucker hardly got any PT but when he did he flashed big. I think he is going to turn heads this season.
• Jack Jones was one of the best CBs late in the season and Nate Hobbs is a top 5 slot CB. Those two are tremendous building blocks for the CB room but we do need another CB, likely in rounds 1-2.

We have issues at QB, CB, RG and RT. We could surely use some upgrades at positions like LB, S and depth at DT, WR, etc. But calling it brutal is way off.

 

[Soko]

33 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Some of this is simply not correct tbh. 

• Jacobs was horrendous last year and when Zamir White came in late in the season, he was leading the NFL in all-purpose yards during a certain string of games. He looks like a potential star and Mattison is a solid RB2. 
• Jakobi Meyers is one of the better WR2s in the NFL. Tre Tucker hardly got any PT but when he did he flashed big. I think he is going to turn heads this season.
• Jack Jones was one of the best CBs late in the season and Nate Hobbs is a top 5 slot CB. Those two are tremendous building blocks for the CB room but we do need another CB, likely in rounds 1-2.

We have issues at QB, CB, RG and RT. We could surely use some upgrades at positions like LB, S and depth at DT, WR, etc. But calling it brutal is way off.

 

Are you basing White off of KC and Denver? Good games, but also separated between two meh games. Calling him a “potential future star” because of those two games seems kind of generous. 

Similar with Jakobi. I love Meyers, I wish NE kept him, but I count 13 teams where he would be undeniably third in the pecking order. Possibly more, depending on how you view Jacksonville with Davis, Dallas with Cooks, NO with Shaheed, and KC with Hollywood. 

Jack Jones is far from a sure thing at CB to be called a tremendous building block. Dude didn’t get cut from NE for anything short of being a knucklehead in the locker room that gave inconsistent effort. He wasn’t blowing the doors off the window on the field in his sophomore season after coming back from injury, either.

Kind of overrating these guys a bit.

[RaidersAreOne]

26 minutes ago, Soko said:

Are you basing White off of KC and Denver? Good games, but also separated between two meh games. Calling him a “potential future star” because of those two games seems kind of generous. 

Similar with Jakobi. I love Meyers, I wish NE kept him, but I count 13 teams where he would be undeniably third in the pecking order. Possibly more, depending on how you view Jacksonville with Davis, Dallas with Cooks, NO with Shaheed, and KC with Hollywood. 

Jack Jones is far from a sure thing at CB to be called a tremendous building block. Dude didn’t get cut from NE for anything short of being a knucklehead in the locker room that gave inconsistent effort. He wasn’t blowing the doors off the window on the field in his sophomore season after coming back from injury, either.

Kind of overrating these guys a bit.

Zamir had ~460 all-purpose yards in the final 4 weeks. Not superstar numbers but he looked good. He was far more explosive and efficient than Jacobs looked behind the same OL/QB/OC.

You're completely underselling Jakobi if anything. Maybe he took his game to another level after leaving New England and you didn't watch him much, but he was also very good. He had the same # of TDs as Adams with 31 less catches and this was with the worst QB situation in the NFL. He is definitely not some weak WR2 let alone WR3 (Unless you're talking about two WR1s like Philly for example). 

For sure Jack Jones isn't a sure thing. However if anyone in the league can keep his head on straight it is Pierce. No one can deny how incredible Jones was after being picked up off waivers though. Hr had two pick-6's in back-to-back weeks and was awesome in coverage.

I didn't say established superstar with Jones, but is no doubt an extremely promising building block we got for FREE. 

[Nightmare]

1 hour ago, Soko said:

Are you basing White off of KC and Denver? Good games, but also separated between two meh games. Calling him a “potential future star” because of those two games seems kind of generous. 

Similar with Jakobi. I love Meyers, I wish NE kept him, but I count 13 teams where he would be undeniably third in the pecking order. Possibly more, depending on how you view Jacksonville with Davis, Dallas with Cooks, NO with Shaheed, and KC with Hollywood. 

Jack Jones is far from a sure thing at CB to be called a tremendous building block. Dude didn’t get cut from NE for anything short of being a knucklehead in the locker room that gave inconsistent effort. He wasn’t blowing the doors off the window on the field in his sophomore season after coming back from injury, either.

Kind of overrating these guys a bit.

Name them. Meyers had a really good season last year with a washed up Jimmy G and unpolished rookie in AOC at QB. You’re completely underselling what he’s just done in a poor offense in 2023. 10 TDs (11 if you count the one he passed the ball) as a 2nd option is very impressive.

Zamir and Jones I actually get your point in that we need a full season before we truly label them. But you’re also giving the argument of “let’s see what they do next year” rather than trying to argue that they haven’t been good in the Raiders uniform - and I’m always wary about the “yeah they’ve been good so far, BUT…” type of arguments. Because what they’ve done so far as starters on this team has been pretty good.

Edited March 28 by Nightmare

[Soko]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Zamir had ~460 all-purpose yards in the final 4 weeks. Not superstar numbers but he looked good. He was far more explosive and efficient than Jacobs looked behind the same OL/QB/OC.

You're completely underselling Jakobi if anything. Maybe he took his game to another level after leaving New England and you didn't watch him much, but he was also very good. He had the same # of TDs as Adams with 31 less catches and this was with the worst QB situation in the NFL. He is definitely not some weak WR2 let alone WR3 (Unless you're talking about two WR1s like Philly for example). 

For sure Jack Jones isn't a sure thing. However if anyone in the league can keep his head on straight it is Pierce. No one can deny how incredible Jones was after being picked up off waivers though. Hr had two pick-6's in back-to-back weeks and was awesome in coverage.

I didn't say established superstar with Jones, but is no doubt an extremely promising building block we got for FREE. 

 

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

Name them. Meyers had a really good season last year with a washed up Jimmy G and unpolished rookie in AOC at QB. You’re completely underselling what he’s just done in a poor offense in 2023. 10 TDs (11 if you count the one he passed the ball) as a 2nd option is very impressive.

Zamir and Jones I actually get your point in that we need a full season before we truly label them. But you’re also giving the argument of “let’s see what they do next year” rather than trying to argue that they haven’t been good in the Raiders uniform - and I’m always wary about the “yeah they’ve been good so far, BUT…” type of arguments. Because what they’ve done so far as starters on this team has been pretty good.

Higgins, Godwin, Lockett, Devonta, Waddle, Ridley, Jeudy, Dell/Nico, Allen/Moore, Dotson, Addison, Deebo, Puka - who are you taking Myers over? And again, depending on how you feel about Davis, Hollywood, Shaheed, Jamo, Cooks, Downs, you could argue even lower in the pecking order. Like I said, I love Myers. He’s a reliable receiver, I’d have kept him at that price (sure beats the hell out of giving an almost identical deal to JuJu). But acting like he’s a top flight WR2 in this league isn’t really true. He’s similar to Boyd (who I’d also love on my team), where you’re happy enough with him as WR2 but really want him as your WR3. 

White’s production came off two games. They were fine games. The other two were meh. No, I’m not going to call someone a “potential superstar” or whatever the exact wording was, based on two games. It’s not really a “he’s been good, BUT” statement. But I’m very much going to push back on putting White in that kind of light based on those two games. If two games was all it takes, then every team in the league probably has a potential superstar running back waiting in the wings. I’m open to White one day being that guy because anything can happen in this league - but talking about it today like he’s on the cusp, because is two games, is homerism. 

Jack Jones had a similar start to 2022. Didn’t finish 2023 on the roster because he was a distraction, got into it with coaches, wasn’t available, got arrested, and the play fell off as a result. A tremendous building block seems more like a Devon Witherspoon or Deonte Banks. Jones is an established knucklehead at this point. Maybe he keeps his head on straight, but that’s far from a given and he’s far from someone I’d want to build my team around (AKA a building block). 

I’m fans of the ex-Patriots, so I hope they hit the standards being set. But Myers as one of the better WR2s, White as a potential superstar, and Jones as a tremendous building block? I think that’s optimistic overrating of what they’ve been so far. 

[BroncoSojia]

5 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

 

I am not 100% sure what they did this offseason, but:

Their QB room is gonna be dead last in the NFL next season.

 

....Have you seen the Broncos QB room?

[big_palooka]

5 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

 

I am not 100% sure what they did this offseason, but:

Their QB room is gonna be dead last in the NFL next season - TBD in the draft, but Denver, Minnesota, Giants say hello

They had a dreadful run game last year and lost their top RB. - Oline and teams stacking the box against a rookie QB. White came on strong to end the year

They have Adams and then bleh at WR. - Jakobi Myers was terrific as a 2. 8 TDs last season with subpar QB play. Tucker looks like he could grow into a versatile deep threat and slot. 

They have an average TE room, but I do think Mayer can develop into a star in time. - Mayer I agree should have a breakout year. They added Harrison Bryant 

Their OL is below average. - RG and RT need to be added. Left side is well above average.

Their DL is looking good. 

Their LB’s are average to sightly below. - Spillane was terrific this past season.  Deablo has played well when healthy. They could use some depth.

Their CB’s are actually dreadful IMO. - They need a CB1. Jack Jones is a high end 2. Hobbs is an above average nickel.

They have solid S play.

They have amazing kickers.

I like Antonio Pierce and think he elevates their talent. - 

 

[big_palooka]

4 hours ago, Soko said:

Yeah sure but they have potential future star RB Zamir White

or something 

High hopes for him. He's a guy you need to feed carries and get into a rhythm. He gets better as the game progresses. We saw that down the stretch. As a 2, he never really got rolling. He and Mattision should be a decent committee.  

[sparky151]

20 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

Why trade Crosby? That seems counterintuitive.

I'm not saying the Raiders want to trade Crosby but he's their best player and trading the farm means pain. The top 4 teams in the draft all have needs at DE. Bears aren't going to trade pick 1 after moving Fields. Commanders aren't either. Patriots might be open for business but offer would have to blow them away to move that far down. Arizona is definitely open for business but again might not want to move that far down. So Raiders would have to include something other team's can't, ala Crosby. Maybe Adams would move the needle but Crosby is far more desirable to the top 4 teams. 

 

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, sparky151 said:

I'm not saying the Raiders want to trade Crosby but he's their best player and trading the farm means pain. The top 4 teams in the draft all have needs at DE. Bears aren't going to trade pick 1 after moving Fields. Commanders aren't either. Patriots might be open for business but offer would have to blow them away to move that far down. Arizona is definitely open for business but again might not want to move that far down. So Raiders would have to include something other team's can't, ala Crosby. Maybe Adams would move the needle but Crosby is far more desirable to the top 4 teams. 

But Crosby is worth 2-3 firsts himself, as he has 2-4 more elite seasons in him. Why trade that kind of value for QB3/4 in what looks like an average-at-best QB draft? Davante is one of the greats but older and a player who needs a developed QB to unlock the potential of. Crosby is an elite edge. This reeks of trading Mack all over again, which was a colossal mistake.

Edited March 28 by NudeTayne

[Nightmare]

3 hours ago, Soko said:

 

Higgins, Godwin, Lockett, Devonta, Waddle, Ridley, Jeudy, Dell/Nico, Allen/Moore, Dotson, Addison, Deebo, Puka - who are you taking Myers over? And again, depending on how you feel about Davis, Hollywood, Shaheed, Jamo, Cooks, Downs, you could argue even lower in the pecking order. Like I said, I love Myers. He’s a reliable receiver, I’d have kept him at that price (sure beats the hell out of giving an almost identical deal to JuJu). But acting like he’s a top flight WR2 in this league isn’t really true. He’s similar to Boyd (who I’d also love on my team), where you’re happy enough with him as WR2 but really want him as your WR3. 

White’s production came off two games. They were fine games. The other two were meh. No, I’m not going to call someone a “potential superstar” or whatever the exact wording was, based on two games. It’s not really a “he’s been good, BUT” statement. But I’m very much going to push back on putting White in that kind of light based on those two games. If two games was all it takes, then every team in the league probably has a potential superstar running back waiting in the wings. I’m open to White one day being that guy because anything can happen in this league - but talking about it today like he’s on the cusp, because is two games, is homerism. 

Jack Jones had a similar start to 2022. Didn’t finish 2023 on the roster because he was a distraction, got into it with coaches, wasn’t available, got arrested, and the play fell off as a result. A tremendous building block seems more like a Devon Witherspoon or Deonte Banks. Jones is an established knucklehead at this point. Maybe he keeps his head on straight, but that’s far from a given and he’s far from someone I’d want to build my team around (AKA a building block). 

I’m fans of the ex-Patriots, so I hope they hit the standards being set. But Myers as one of the better WR2s, White as a potential superstar, and Jones as a tremendous building block? I think that’s optimistic overrating of what they’ve been so far. 

Each to their own, but I’m taking Meyers over plenty of those guys. Jeudy is one that you named who I am 100% taking Meyers over; I’ve seen him do nothing against my team (or in general apparently) for years. Dotson and Addison as well. Give Meyers above average QB play and let’s see how he compares to some of the names on that list.

Again, about Zamir White, I haven’t said potential superstar. I doubt many other Raiders fans would either. The guy you are quoting did so as a point of sarcasm. But there’s no denying that White was impressive in his 4 starts after Jacobs got hurt. Will he replicate that production? It remains to be seen, but no reason to write him off based on what he’s done (or hasn’t) so far.

With Jones you’re implying a building block which nobody has really suggested he is. But a solid starting outside corner in the NFL, he absolutely is and has the potential to be going forward.

 

It’s all going to be a moot point if the Raiders roll Minshew out there at QB in week 1 this season, but I do feel these type of threads show the kind of disproportion there is in the league when evaluating teams who have a QB vs those who don’t. For example, say the Chiefs have Daniel Jones instead of Patrick Mahomes at QB - suddenly you’ll get posts like some of the ones in this thread saying “but the chiefs roster is brutal because x, y, z”, but realistically they just have an elite QB carrying whatever else is on the roster.

Which again, as I stated originally, is why the Raiders need to move up and take that franchise guy. Potential or not, at least it gives you a chance to work out of the QB purgatory they are currently in. And then the rest of the roster is a moot point anyway. Because that’s what the NFL is. 

[sparky151]

1 hour ago, NudeTayne said:

But Crosby is worth 2-3 firsts himself, as he has 2-4 more elite seasons in him. Why trade that kind of value for QB3/4 in what looks like an average-at-best QB draft? Davante is one of the greats but older and a player who needs a developed QB to unlock the potential of. Crosby is an elite edge. This reeks of trading Mack all over again, which was a colossal mistake.

 

So Crosby is worth as much as a franchise QB in your view? And this year's QB class is average at best?

 

Lol.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

Each to their own, but I’m taking Meyers over plenty of those guys. Jeudy is one that you named who I am 100% taking Meyers over; I’ve seen him do nothing against my team (or in general apparently) for years. Dotson and Addison as well. Give Meyers above average QB play and let’s see how he compares to some of the names on that list.

Meyers has yet to have a season that rookie Addison has had, mostly without competent QB play. Doesn’t kiss the feet of Devonta, Higgins, Waddle, Godwin, Lockett, Allen/Moore - who are the actual quality number 2s. I stand on the point that you’re not upset with Meyers as your second wide receiver, but you’re much happier with him as a third. He doesn’t bring more to the table than a Tyler Boyd, tbh. 

1 hour ago, Nightmare said:

Again, about Zamir White, I haven’t said potential superstar. I doubt many other Raiders fans would either. The guy you are quoting did so as a point of sarcasm. But there’s no denying that White was impressive in his 4 starts after Jacobs got hurt. Will he replicate that production? It remains to be seen, but no reason to write him off based on what he’s done (or hasn’t) so far.

With Jones you’re implying a building block which nobody has really suggested he is. But a solid starting outside corner in the NFL, he absolutely is and has the potential to be going forward.

The OP says White is a potential future star. The quote I responded said Jones is a tremendous building block. I’m not just making these statements up, I’m pushing back against things thatve been stated ITT.

[Tugboat]

16 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Always interesting to hear "mortgage your entire future" when you're really talking about a couple first round picks. If you draft and develop well, those can be offset (not the Raiders strength mind you). The real key pieces you hope to find early in the draft, LT, Edge, DT the Raiders have locked in. That leaves QB as the biggest hole. 

Positions like CB, WR, RB, Oline can be found outside round 1 picks they might give up in trade.

For the Raiders, if they feel they are a QB away, then the risk outweighs the reward. They are a middle of the pack team. They will be stuck in the middle for a while without a QB. They need to either take their shot at getting a franchise QB or be in purgatory while their core guys age out.

 

It's fair enough to comment on the fact that the Raiders are pretty stuck in purgatory until they find "The Guy" at QB.  That goes for every team that doesn't have a Franchise QB answer.  And even some that have maybe kinda sorta the guy but aren't sure and get stuck in a loop trying to decide whether or not to move on.

If you mortgage the future on the right guy, you can swallow it.  But there are still a lot of holes in that roster.  So you've gotta absolutely murder the rest of the later rounds over the coming years if you want to patch those with good young players.  Few teams ever hit that kind of heater in the "dart throw rounds" of the draft reliably.

If you mortgage the future for a guy who is just "decent" even...it becomes a lot harder to carry.  If they're not the guy at all...it's crippling.  It'll destroy your franchise and waste the primes of those pieces you already have in place.  Not to say that means you should be "QB Shy" in that circumstance.  Just...selective about which QB you bet the farm on.  And i'm not sure how things will shake out, and if the right guy will be there to do so for what is within the Raiders reach.

 

8 hours ago, BroncoSojia said:

....Have you seen the Broncos QB room?

Do they got one of those?  Or is it just called, "Russ' Kitchen" and it burnt down?

[Jakuvious]

To me, their ideal scenario was to be bad enough last year to be in position to draft a QB high this year. But that didn't really happen.

Plan B, to me, should be to call this year a wash, roll with Minshew as a bridge QB, and hope to be in position next year to draft a QB high.

But I don't feel like the Raiders see things this way. Like, the Wilkins signing, to me, is the kind of signing a team makes if they think they'll be legitimately competitive within a year or two. Given that view, you almost have to push hard for a QB, whether that's a trade up or reaching for one of the second round guys. Because no matter how much you like your roster, you aren't competing with Minshew.

 

Throw me in the camp of those not particularly high on the Raiders roster. Any argument in favor of it not being an overall weak roster is far too reliant on a small sample size of late season games against a lot of backup QBs with an interim head coach. And that's a dangerous thing to buy into. I remember the 2011 Chiefs. Fired Todd Haley, had a nice little finish under Romeo Crennell. Only allowed 11 points per game in that final stretch with our new, beloved by the players, defense oriented head coach. Defense seemed legit. Went 2-1, with both wins over playoff teams. Knocked off the 13-0 Packers. And then we went 2-14.