2024 Rookie Minicamp, OTA's & Training Camp

[Brit Pack]

9 hours ago, Old Guy said:

None, because we don't play against our offense. Also because Johnson will be on the bench and Barry is not our DC any longer. 😂

Firstly I omitted our offence players names, the outcome is what I was referring to!!!!

And if we are taking a dig at Barry, the one thing he was good at was not giving up long TDs, only one in 2023, and the longest passing play of 53 yards. In fact we were 3rd in the whole League for preventing giving up plays of more than 40 yards. I expect that to change with no neck Haffley !!!!

[skibrett15]

the kicker competition is far and away the most exciting thing about camp.  Other than that it's just "dont' get hurt guys"

[craig]

10 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

the kicker competition is far and away the most exciting thing about camp.  Other than that it's just "dont' get hurt guys"

Three other competitions I'll be interested in:

1. Stokes/Valentine for 2nd boundary-corner position.  
2. McDuffie/Cooper/Hopper for the 2nd/3rd ILB spots.  
3. Lloyd/Dillon/Wilson for the 2nd/3rd RB spots.  (2nd RB gets a lot of snaps, so whether those are all Dillon snaps, or if Lloyd or Wilson gets some or all is pretty interesting to me)

[craig]

Couple other competitions I'm interested in, but that we'll probably get little insights into from camp, only as the season actually plays out:  

1. D-line usage.  Last year, snaps were Clark 810 > Slaton 625 > Wyatt 552 > Brooks 380 > Wooden 255.  4 guys within the 23%-65% range.  Camp will tell us little about in-season usage.  But super interested in how usage will be distributed, with 2nd-year jumps, physical reconfiguration for Wooden, supposed "attack-attack-attack" approach, and just the scheme adjustments. 
2. WR usage:  Last year Doubs 847 (77%) > Reed 578 (53%) > Wicks 458 (42%) > Watson 446 (41%) > Heath 260 (24%) > Melton, Toure 139 (13%).  Usage then was largely determined by injury, as Doubs was about the only guy of the top-4 who wasn't injured for variable parts of the season.  But Reed-Wicks-Watson all bunched in the 41-53% usage range.  We'll never know, probably, because there will probably never be any extended window where all four of Doubs/Reed/Wicks/Watson are all healthy at the same time.  But if that were to be the case, I wonder how the snaps would shake out?  Would there be a couple of those four who would be >75% snaps every week?  Or might it always be kinda matchup/situation/package dependent, such that relative snaps varies every week?  

Edited June 6 by craig

[Refugee]

1 hour ago, skibrett15 said:

the kicker competition is far and away the most exciting thing about camp.  Other than that it's just "dont' get hurt guys"

I think the new regime on defense and how they incorporate the vets and new guys is the story. Kicker just needs to do his job or find a new one. 

[Brat&Beer]

19 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

Firstly I omitted our offence players names, the outcome is what I was referring to!!!!

And if we are taking a dig at Barry, the one thing he was good at was not giving up long TDs, only one in 2023, and the longest passing play of 53 yards. In fact we were 3rd in the whole League for preventing giving up plays of more than 40 yards. I expect that to change with no neck Haffley !!!!

And Packer defenders weren't often exposed to injuries returning INT's, because there hardly were any. Joe did have the players welfare at heart. 

[thrILL!]

10 hours ago, craig said:

Three other competitions I'll be interested in:

1. Stokes/Valentine for 2nd boundary-corner position.  
2. McDuffie/Cooper/Hopper for the 2nd/3rd ILB spots.  
3. Lloyd/Dillon/Wilson for the 2nd/3rd RB spots.  (2nd RB gets a lot of snaps, so whether those are all Dillon snaps, or if Lloyd or Wilson gets some or all is pretty interesting to me)

Preseason about to be lit. 

[Brit Pack]

8 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

And Packer defenders weren't often exposed to injuries returning INT's, because there hardly were any. Joe did have the players welfare at heart. 

We also did that to make our offence better

[Mazrimiv]

On 6/5/2024 at 12:30 PM, craig said:

On 6/5/2024 at 12:12 PM, skibrett15 said:

the kicker competition is far and away the most exciting thing about camp.  Other than that it's just "dont' get hurt guys"

Three other competitions I'll be interested in:

1. Stokes/Valentine for 2nd boundary-corner position.  
2. McDuffie/Cooper/Hopper for the 2nd/3rd ILB spots.  
3. Lloyd/Dillon/Wilson for the 2nd/3rd RB spots.  (2nd RB gets a lot of snaps, so whether those are all Dillon snaps, or if Lloyd or Wilson gets some or all is pretty interesting to me)

CB, S and OL will be the groups I'll be most invested in.

[craig]

4 hours ago, Mazrimiv said:

CB, S and OL will be the groups I'll be most invested in.

Yeah, OL will be really interesting, too.  That's a position group where camp usage may be somewhat telling.  If Tom is out, or sitting out 2 days out of 3, then who's working with the 1's won't really tell us a ton. But if Tom is back, and if Morgan is working with the 1's all the time and Walker with the 2's, we'll kinda know.  And vice-versa.  

I'm really curious how they'll handle the OL in season, platoon versus every-down starters?  I liked how they ran the two Nijman/Walker and Runyan/Rhyan platoons last year.  But, I also wonder if that was unique to the situation:  a clear rebuilding year, and Nijman/Runyan both expiring.  With all the playoff confidence (overconfidence?), maybe they don't want to mess with that, and will want every-snap starters at every position, like pretty much every other team does.  

I also wonder about the Rhyan fitness factor?  MLF talked about how rookie Rhyan would get gassed after a couple of plays.  Supposedly better now, but maybe he just doesn't have the endurance, physical or focus-wise, to thrive as an every-snap guy?  Maybe platoon helps him both stay fresh and to stay fully motivated?  

 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, craig said:

Yeah, OL will be really interesting, too.  That's a position group where camp usage may be somewhat telling.  If Tom is out, or sitting out 2 days out of 3, then who's working with the 1's won't really tell us a ton. But if Tom is back, and if Morgan is working with the 1's all the time and Walker with the 2's, we'll kinda know.  And vice-versa.  

I'm really curious how they'll handle the OL in season, platoon versus every-down starters?  I liked how they ran the two Nijman/Walker and Runyan/Rhyan platoons last year.  But, I also wonder if that was unique to the situation:  a clear rebuilding year, and Nijman/Runyan both expiring.  With all the playoff confidence (overconfidence?), maybe they don't want to mess with that, and will want every-snap starters at every position, like pretty much every other team does.  

I also wonder about the Rhyan fitness factor?  MLF talked about how rookie Rhyan would get gassed after a couple of plays.  Supposedly better now, but maybe he just doesn't have the endurance, physical or focus-wise, to thrive as an every-snap guy?  Maybe platoon helps him both stay fresh and to stay fully motivated?  

 

There really wasn't a Nijman platoon. He was just the swing tackle. 

I don't see any reason to think Rhyan's fitness or motivation is a concern. Guys get tired when they play. They have to maintain their technique even when tired. Rookies have a tendency to slip as the "correct" technique isn't as ingrained as it is in vets. Getting tired leads to bad technique leads to bad results. Rhyan will be fine. 

[craig]

16 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

There really wasn't a Nijman platoon. He was just the swing tackle. 

I don't see any reason to think Rhyan's fitness or motivation is a concern. Guys get tired when they play. They have to maintain their technique even when tired. Rookies have a tendency to slip as the "correct" technique isn't as ingrained as it is in vets. Getting tired leads to bad technique leads to bad results. Rhyan will be fine. 

Starting OL normally don't share snaps during games, the starter takes them all barring injury or gross failure.  I went through the snap counts to check my recall, that Walker started with 100% snaps for a month; there was snap-share competition for two months; then Walker got 100% snaps for the last month+playoffs.  Snaps confirmed, that during the middle two quarters of the season, from games 6-14, there was a snap-share scenario, before it reverted back to all-Walker down the stretch and in the playoffs.   

• Games 2-6:  Walker only (Bakhti game 1)
• Games 7-14,  there was was a 7-game run where Nijman and Walker divided snaps at LT.  (Nijman was injured game 9 vs Steelers) 
• Games 15-19:  Walker only (includes 2 playoff games)

During those 7 snaps-share games, Nijman had:  50-35-31-27-8-17-19.  

Vikings game, Walker started but then got yanked after a penalty and sack, and I think Nijman played the rest of the game.  But then 3 games with Nijman in the 35-31-27, those were variably close to ~50-50 snap distribution.  By games 12-14, Nijman was 8-17-19, and after that they just went 100% Walker.  

I kinda view that 6-game run, the games after Walker got benched versus Vikings, as a true competition/platoon.  Very unusual to have extended windows like that at both LT and RG.  Not sure exactly what the thinking was.  But it was fun, and it worked.

Edited June 8 by craig

[craig]

Few teams have true OL competition/platoon/share-snaps usage. Most want to have internal consistency/coherence.  2nd, if it's "best 5", usually coaches perceive 4/5 being variably better than 6/7, so just play "best 5".  

Still, they always talk competition-competition-competition.  100% consistent focus, 100% mental alertness, and 100% effort doesn't come automatically to every 300lb athlete.  So I kinda wonder whether in their "competition" framework, they might like to have some share-snaps competition?  In the "competition" idea, they like next-man-up to be good enough to use, and to keep the competition/focus (and physical rest) burning? 

I assume it will be 100% Walker and 100% Rhyan when season starts and if everybody is healthy. 

• But perhaps they'd love to give Morgan a series each half, both for his own sake and his own development, but to give Walker a little rest and to keep him on fire during the series that he does play?  (If I fall asleep on the job, I might lose it?). 
• Maybe the "Best 5" has Rhyan way ahead of Newman.  But if they don't see much separation, maybe they'd like it if Newman was playing well enough to get a series each half, and maybe keep Rhyan's fire burning to play to the whistle on every snap?  

 

Edited June 8 by craig

[AlexGreen#20]

27 minutes ago, craig said:

Starting OL normally don't share snaps during games, the starter takes them all barring injury or gross failure.  I went through the snap counts to check my recall, that Walker started with 100% snaps for a month; there was snap-share competition for two months; then Walker got 100% snaps for the last month+playoffs.  Snaps confirmed, that during the middle two quarters of the season, from games 6-14, there was a snap-share scenario, before it reverted back to all-Walker down the stretch and in the playoffs.   

• Games 2-6:  Walker only (Bakhti game 1)
• Games 7-14,  there was was a 7-game run where Nijman and Walker divided snaps at LT.  (Nijman was injured game 9 vs Steelers) 
• Games 15-19:  Walker only (includes 2 playoff games)

During those 7 snaps-share games, Nijman had:  50-35-31-27-8-17-19.  

Vikings game, Walker started but then got yanked after a penalty and sack, and I think Nijman played the rest of the game.  But then 3 games with Nijman in the 35-31-27, those were variably close to ~50-50 snap distribution.  By games 12-14, Nijman was 8-17-19, and after that they just went 100% Walker.  

I kinda view that 6-game run, the games after Walker got benched versus Vikings, as a true competition/platoon.  Very unusual to have extended windows like that at both LT and RG.  Not sure exactly what the thinking was.  But it was fun, and it worked.

You're correct, but I don't think it was that long. I think there were at best 3 games, that it was a real platoon (50:50 snaps) happening intentionally, vs. Rams, vs. Chargers, @ Lions. 

The other ones IIRC tended to be a combination of "give him 1 or 2 drives" and Walker coming out for a play to get his knee/ankle adjusted and they left Nijman in for the rest of the drive. 

We may be having semantics difference. I did forget about that weird middle stretch. I was thinking more of stretch run and the playoffs. 

[AlexGreen#20]

29 minutes ago, craig said:

Few teams have true OL competition/platoon/share-snaps usage. Most want to have internal consistency/coherence.  2nd, if it's "best 5", usually coaches perceive 4/5 being variably better than 6/7, so just play "best 5".  

Still, they always talk competition-competition-competition.  100% consistent focus, 100% mental alertness, and 100% effort doesn't come automatically to every 300lb athlete.  So I kinda wonder whether in their "competition" framework, they might like to have some share-snaps competition?  In the "competition" idea, they like next-man-up to be good enough to use, and to keep the competition/focus (and physical rest) burning? 

I assume it will be 100% Walker and 100% Rhyan when season starts and if everybody is healthy. 

• But perhaps they'd love to give Morgan a series each half, both for his own sake and his own development, but to give Walker a little rest and to keep him on fire during the series that he does play?  (If I fall asleep on the job, I might lose it?). 
• Maybe the "Best 5" has Rhyan way ahead of Newman.  But if they don't see much separation, maybe they'd like it if Newman was playing well enough to get a series each half, and maybe keep Rhyan's fire burning to play to the whistle on every snap?  

I think Walker vs. Morgan is a real competition. 

I don't believe for a minute that they consider Newman to be real competition for Rhyan. Rhyan looked like a genuine starter at RG. Newman looked like he was holding on for dear life in his limited snaps and then was banished to the bench as soon as Jenkins got healthy. 

I wouldn't have been shocked if after the Lions game, Rhyan wouldn't have replaced Newman.