Mazrimiv Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 3 hours ago, vegas492 said: I'm happy that you would feel like taking a first round pick at guard is a win. I'm not in that boat with you. No big deal. I get where you are coming from, a starter is a starter, but I just feel like the first round should be for more premium positions, unless a very high end talent is there at a non-premium. Not sure where Morgan would have fallen, rank wise, against other "pure" guards coming out. But when I see him, I see a little Daryn College. Technician, feet, but lacks power. I still feel like he can add some power to those legs and be a plus tackle. Other than possibly RB, if a team comes out of pick 25 with a legit starter on offense or defense, that's a win to me. If Morgan develops similar to Jenkins in that his best position is G, but he can slide out to T when needed, that's a win for Gute and the Packers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 49 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Other than possibly RB, if a team comes out of pick 25 with a legit starter on offense or defense, that's a win to me. If Morgan develops similar to Jenkins in that his best position is G, but he can slide out to T when needed, that's a win for Gute and the Packers. Again, I like that you feel that way. I do not. It is as simple as that. Why? Because I felt like there were better pure guards in the draft than Morgan. As an armchair talent evaluator, probably at a skill level less than amateur, nothing on his tape screamed guard to me. Feet were too good to waste at guard. Power was not evident for NFL guard. So if we wanted a guard, guess I feel like Barton, JPP and Frazier were better guard prospects. Couple were centers, too. If we really wanted someone to compete at tackle while also cross training at guard, that was Barton. If we wanted a tackle with high end traits to develop, that was Guyton. But we chose Morgan. I had him ranked below a few other guys that may have fit us a little better. But Morgan is our guy, so I'll emphasize the positives that I see. Feet, brain, length. He can play...somewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 17 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Again, I like that you feel that way. I do not. It is as simple as that. Why? Because I felt like there were better pure guards in the draft than Morgan. As an armchair talent evaluator, probably at a skill level less than amateur, nothing on his tape screamed guard to me. Feet were too good to waste at guard. Power was not evident for NFL guard. So if we wanted a guard, guess I feel like Barton, JPP and Frazier were better guard prospects. Couple were centers, too. If we really wanted someone to compete at tackle while also cross training at guard, that was Barton. If we wanted a tackle with high end traits to develop, that was Guyton. But we chose Morgan. I had him ranked below a few other guys that may have fit us a little better. But Morgan is our guy, so I'll emphasize the positives that I see. Feet, brain, length. He can play...somewhere. We're going to wind up with a RG platoon again this year. Rhyan and Morgan are going to split duties. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 5 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Again, I like that you feel that way. I do not. It is as simple as that. Why? Because I felt like there were better pure guards in the draft than Morgan. As an armchair talent evaluator, probably at a skill level less than amateur, nothing on his tape screamed guard to me. Feet were too good to waste at guard. Power was not evident for NFL guard. So if we wanted a guard, guess I feel like Barton, JPP and Frazier were better guard prospects. Couple were centers, too. If we really wanted someone to compete at tackle while also cross training at guard, that was Barton. If we wanted a tackle with high end traits to develop, that was Guyton. But we chose Morgan. I had him ranked below a few other guys that may have fit us a little better. But Morgan is our guy, so I'll emphasize the positives that I see. Feet, brain, length. He can play...somewhere. Morgan is a winning pick if he eventually lands at T, but not if he is a G/T hybrid similar to Jenkins? I admit that I can't quite wrap my head around that when we are talking about pick #25. Fair enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Better movemebt skills thab frazier and jpp. Better prospecr than barton at tackle. More versatility than Guyton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 36 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said: Morgan is a winning pick if he eventually lands at T, but not if he is a G/T hybrid similar to Jenkins? I admit that I can't quite wrap my head around that when we are talking about pick #25. Fair enough. It's not that tough to understand. I feel like if they wanted a guard, better guards were available. If the plan was to get a tackle, better tackles were available. If they wanted someone versatile, better guys were available. Coming out of the draft with a "tweener" on the OL is not a good outcome for a first round pick. Like if you are going to take a flier, take one on a guy at a more premium position than guard. That's why I feel like his home is tackle. It is what makes the most sense given where he was taken as well as his skillset. Him playing guard now tells me that Rhyan has been less than stellar and Walker has been improved. You bring up Jenkins, which is interesting. He was versatile in college. But it looks like he just was not up to "it" at tackle. Maybe the injury had something to do with that. Also? That guard wasn't taken in the first round, further emphasizing the fact that you can find quality guards outside of round one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 1 hour ago, {Family Ghost} said: We're going to wind up with a RG platoon again this year. Rhyan and Morgan are going to split duties. That is a probable outcome. And unfortunate. Rhyan should be better than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 7 minutes ago, vegas492 said: It's not that tough to understand. I feel like if they wanted a guard, better guards were available. If the plan was to get a tackle, better tackles were available. If they wanted someone versatile, better guys were available. Coming out of the draft with a "tweener" on the OL is not a good outcome for a first round pick. Like if you are going to take a flier, take one on a guy at a more premium position than guard. That's why I feel like his home is tackle. It is what makes the most sense given where he was taken as well as his skillset. Him playing guard now tells me that Rhyan has been less than stellar and Walker has been improved. You bring up Jenkins, which is interesting. He was versatile in college. But it looks like he just was not up to "it" at tackle. Maybe the injury had something to do with that. Also? That guard wasn't taken in the first round, further emphasizing the fact that you can find quality guards outside of round one. I dont think those evals are correct. Especially when you combine them as a whole. Thats the point you dont have to pigeonhole Jordan. Think Morgan > Barton across the board except for center maybe and we have a center. I also think Tackle is Morgans longterm home but being able to give snaps at guard his rookie year isnt some kind of negative, any way thats spun. Since its his long term home theres no reason to comp him to Frazier. Less so to JPP who i dont see as a scheme fit at all. Yeah i would have preferred Guyton but this staff has placed a premium on versatility forever and thats worked pretty well for them. Edited August 19 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 6 minutes ago, vegas492 said: That is a probable outcome. And unfortunate. Rhyan should be better than that. Or maybe they think Morgan is THAT good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 After 3 years, it is better to have selected a player in round 1 that is a starter at OG vs selecting a player that doesn't/ can't start anywhere on the OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 3 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: I dont think those evals are correct. Especially when you combine them as a whole. Thats the point you dont have to pigeonhole Jordan. Think Morgan > Barton across the board except for center maybe and we have a center. I also think Tackle is Morgans longterm home but being able to give snaps at guard his rookie year isnt some kind of negative, any way thats spun. Since its his long term home theres no reason to comp him to Frazier. Less so to JPP who i dont see as a scheme fit at all. Yeah i would have preferred Guyton but this staff has placed a premium on versatility forever and thats worked pretty well for them. Time will tell how Morgan will fare compared to those other guys. I just go back to this...I don't see high end guard traits with him. If he's winning RG, then Rhyan has just failed to develop and we should have drafted a better guard prospect to shore up that position long term. Now...I believe that we both feel that better prospects were available. But GB chose Morgan, so here we are. So I'll say this....I do not believe he would have been there with our first second round pick. So it was either take him, or take a chance and trade down. The fact that GB chose him over, checks notes, JPP, Barton, Guyton says a lot. Let's hope the front office was right. Cuz when the draft went down, I thought for sure that our pick would be Barton or DeJean. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 9 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: Or maybe they think Morgan is THAT good. I doubt it, but that is a possibility. I hope that you are right. I just didn't see the power needed to move anyone at guard. I did see great footwork to mirror, though. Maybe he plays with, ahem, better pad level and leverage than I thought he did in college. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 14 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I just go back to this...I don't see high end guard traits with him. If he's winning RG, then Rhyan has just failed to develop and we should have drafted a better guard prospect to shore up that position long term. It may be that the Packers saw a higher ceiling for Tackle (than Barton) and maybe felt Guyton was a little too tall (at 6'8") which means he is unlikely to be worth cross-training at guard. Starting or rather competing at RG may be more a 'this year' thing than a permanent position, for Morgan. I'd have been happy with either JPP or Barton (I'm not so in love with 6'8" tackles like Guyton), but it is what it is. In a perfect world we'd have taken OT Amegadje as well (went pick 75 to the Bears, sadly) Edited August 19 by OneTwoSixFive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 9 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Time will tell how Morgan will fare compared to those other guys. I just go back to this...I don't see high end guard traits with him. If he's winning RG, then Rhyan has just failed to develop and we should have drafted a better guard prospect to shore up that position long term. Now...I believe that we both feel that better prospects were available. But GB chose Morgan, so here we are. So I'll say this....I do not believe he would have been there with our first second round pick. So it was either take him, or take a chance and trade down. The fact that GB chose him over, checks notes, JPP, Barton, Guyton says a lot. Let's hope the front office was right. Cuz when the draft went down, I thought for sure that our pick would be Barton or DeJean. Hes a strong mobile dude who needs to develop his anchor. Like the biggest ? On him at guard is, can he stop someone from running straight through his face? And with EJ on the other side you can afford to slant myers to the right when we can. Pre draft i was starting to come around more and more on Morgan. Was still a Guyton guy but yeah the versatility is a clear lean. I didnt like Barton as much. Dont think JPJ (this is powers-johnson were referencing right?) was a fit at all. I was on Morgan or Guyton. Frazier as a G only also lowers that value but feel pretty good about him being a dude. We havent seen anything to judge, but the guys who have make it seem like Morgan belongs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 18 minutes ago, vegas492 said: I doubt it, but that is a possibility. I hope that you are right. I just didn't see the power needed to move anyone at guard. I did see great footwork to mirror, though. Maybe he plays with, ahem, better pad level and leverage than I thought he did in college. I have no real idea where Morgan is at in his pro journey. His college **** shows he can toss dudes with his upper body though. I know the UCLA one shows him shoving dudes around. Just about finding the consistency. I think Rhyan has shown he can play but apparently conditioning issues persist Edited August 19 by HighCalebR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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