🏈 Pick #13 is in! Raiders select TE, Brock Bowers, Georgia

[Rich7sena]

29 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

The complaints of Bowers being non premium and going top 13 but then the he doesn’t win like a traditional elite TE… well maybe that’s why he went top 13? He isn’t a traditional TE. He accelerates unlike others. He’s a mismatch nightmare. He makes everyone else better. I get the concerns but yeah… he is well worth this pick as a prospect even considering Mayer on the team. He knows how to win, he will do whatever he can to win and he is a fantastic prospect.

It's time we close the border.

[Scoundrel]

15 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

It's time we close the border.

I’m here to stay now you can not deport me!

[NickButera]

5 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

I’m here to stay now you can not deport me!

I really don't know why you're getting so much hate for loving on our pick. 

It's odd really. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

1 hour ago, Totty said:

Without going back to read the whole thread, can you state to me the problem with the pick that you have?  Genuinely asking.  

I gather you wanted an OT/CB at 13, but... Why if BPA was Brock Bowers?  Good teams don't draft for need.  They take BPA within reason. I have a sneaking suspicion BB will pose a greater that to defenders than Fuaga.  

To me this is a triple smart pick (maybe I'm wrong) but here's how I see it:

1) our defense outside of the Buffalo game wasn't the issue. And it's still a place where we added a top notch talent in Wilkins making CB LESS of a need.  The better your dline plays, the more your corners will shine.

2) We don't have an elite QB.  That said, you need to stack talent around them and the BEST option for a QB, young or average is a playmaking TE and we have two.  So this was a direct addition to help our either young or average QB room.  

3) BPA.  Brock amongst leading analysts was a top 4/5 talent in most predictors. Need? No.  BPA, absolutely.  I firmly believe he's a ALL PRO type talent.  And if that's the case, that means points.  Which we desperately need to compete.  Adams, Mayer, Myers, Bowers, Tucker and Zeus seem like a formidable problem for other teams.  

HM) playmaker. This kid is going to change how defense play against the position.  Not too many teams have someone to take away Adams.  Let alone Adams and a game breaker like Bowers.  

So let me ask you this, if he turns into an All Pro type pass catcher/WEAPON not just your average TE, Will you reconsider?  Because it won't be long until he's a household name in the league.  

What if BPA was a kicker would that justify taking one in the 1st round?  There is such a thing as positional value and TE is below CB/OT in terms of value.  BPA is subjective in talent evaluation and just because TV shills ram a player down our throats on TV, doesn't mean a GM from team X believes that.  Bowers very well could have been BPA but the only way the pick is validated is by production and he needs to do something that a 1st round, top 15 TE hasn't done in a long time and that is produce at an all pro level. 

I am trying to think of the last time a top 15 TE posed good value.  It wasn't Pitts who was alleged to be all pro type player who were going to redefine the position.   Hock hasn't lived up to the hype by averaging 591 and 4 over his 6 year career.  

I hope you're right in regards to Bowers and he turns into a player who redefines the position.  My point is for the pick to pose good value he needs to produce at an all pro level.  

Let me ask you what does he need to statistically average by year 5 to justify using pick 13 on him?  

Edited May 3 by Frankie2Gunz

[ronjon1990]

13 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

None of this shows he’s not good at contested catches. You can cut up various plays across the top prospects and find similar plays

I mean....yes but....

I'm not worried about Bowers' skillset myself, but can't the exact same thing he said about the innumerable "highlight" reel videos being posted about him? 

Not pointing the finger at you or anyone specifically, but I've seen people go gaga over highlight film only to wave off negative film as if it's invalid. 

[ronjon1990]

*double post*

Edited May 3 by ronjon1990

[ronjon1990]

Double double. 🙄

I hate Android sometimes 

Edited May 3 by ronjon1990

[ronjon1990]

13 hours ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

You said it was a "fact" that Bowers was the higher rated than any OT or CB my question was according to who?  I was asking how you know this is a "fact" when a HC named Jim Harbaugh, who needed a TE, passed over him for Alt.  Clearly Bowers not rated higher by JH therefor what you're stating is not a fact.  The Jets could have used a TE for Rodgers but they also passed on Bowers for an OT.

Why is this even being brought up?

Jim picked at 5, we picked at 13. It has no bearing in whether Bowers was BPA when we picked. 

[Frankie2Gunz]

14 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Why is this even being brought up?

Jim picked at 5, we picked at 13. It has no bearing in whether Bowers was BPA when we picked. 

BP was stating that Bowers was rated higher than any OT/CB in the draft and was saying that was an indisputable "fact".  I was just proving the point that BP is as clueless as ever by stating actual facts.  Bowers was not rated higher than Alt on the board of JH nor was he rated higher than the tackle the Jets drafted. 

[Scoundrel]

34 minutes ago, NickButera said:

I really don't know why you're getting so much hate for loving on our pick. 

It's odd really. 

I’m an AOC truther too but we won’t go there…

[big_palooka]

20 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

BP was stating that Bowers was rated higher than any OT/CB in the draft and was saying that was an indisputable "fact".  I was just proving the point that BP is as clueless as ever by stating actual facts.  Bowers was not rated higher than Alt on the board of JH nor was he rated higher than the tackle the Jets drafted. 

I said many had him ranked top 5 talent in this class. That's out here anywhere you care to look.

It's just dumb using Harbaugh as an example. He was always going to take Oline. He wants to pound the ball and be physical. That's his roots. He will regret not giving Herbert better pass catchers. Why leave out the Titans and Jets in conversation? 

So yes, some teams are going to value positions higher than others. That doesn't mean Bowers is not a top 5 talent. 

You're just salty because they took BPA and didn't reach on one of the lackluster CB prospects in the class. That's what's really going on.

[NickButera]

27 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

I’m an AOC truther too but we won’t go there…

I'll bite. Which truth? 

[Scoundrel]

Just now, NickButera said:

I'll bite. Which truth? 

By truther I don’t mean the actual truth that I believe he is the truth 

[Frankie2Gunz]

12 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

I said many had him ranked top 5 talent in this class. That's out here anywhere you care to look.

It's just dumb using Harbaugh as an example. He was always going to take Oline. He wants to pound the ball and be physical. That's his roots. He will regret not giving Herbert better pass catchers. Why leave out the Titans and Jets in conversation? 

So yes, some teams are going to value positions higher than others. That doesn't mean Bowers is not a top 5 talent. 

You're just salty because they took BPA and didn't reach on one of the lackluster CB prospects in the class. That's what's really going on.

Incorrect,  i would have been fine with the best CB/OT prospect on the board as both were greater needs at positions of greater value.  Like I said I hope Bowers can turn into a world beater.  

His value will be defined by production and he will need to do something that a top 15 TE hasn't done in quite some time and that is produce at an elite level.  I'm going of memory and the last top 15 I can think of who posed good value was Tony G and that was nearly 30 years ago.

Let me ask you this, what does Bowers need to average by year 5 in order for the pick to be justified?  It has to be better than Hock who is averaging 591 and 4. 

[ronjon1990]

1 hour ago, Frankie2Gunz said:

BP was stating that Bowers was rated higher than any OT/CB in the draft and was saying that was an indisputable "fact".  I was just proving the point that BP is as clueless as ever by stating actual facts.  Bowers was not rated higher than Alt on the board of JH nor was he rated higher than the tackle the Jets drafted. 

But Harbaugh wasn't picking for the Raiders, he was picking for the Chargers. 

The problem is we don't have access to anyone's big board. Jim could have had Bowers listed as un-draftable or he could have had him as the #1 overall player in the entire draft for all we know. 

Further, it's entirely possible Harbaugh had Bowers as #1 overall and simply chose need over BPA- which itself is sort of problematic because "BPA" is highly subjective anyway (Troy Franklin was the consensus "BPA" for like 3 straight rounds, which tells me plenty about the reality of the "BPA" label). 

Regardless, Jim passing on Bowers doesn't really say much in itself about Bowers. I myself don't ascribe to the BPA theory unless you're a team already established and can take shots in the dark (see: 49ers, Eagles, etc). Based on raw talent, I do believe Bowers was the best player on the board even though he would not have been the pick I would have made. 

Just seems like a strange point of contention to me. 

Edited May 3 by ronjon1990