5.163 - Jacob Monk [C; Duke]

[R T]

10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm seeing a fundamental lack of natural power that even at Center seems like it's going to be a significant cap on his ceiling, if not a limitation that prevents him from ever being an average starter. 

Jake Hanson like in that regard (though few others)

Kind of my thoughts, heavy-handed, two gapping DTs are going to giving him a lot of trouble right now. Can he get strong enough to overcome that in time? Maybe...maybe not. 

[packfanfb]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:18 PM, Kampfgeist said:

Don't think Myers' job is in any jeopardy from anyone but Tom and don't think that's very likely either.      Monk's value will be in helping to unseat Newman's roster spot and his $3.2mil cap hit this year and challenge for that C spot next yr depending on a Myers re-signing

I always thought it was pretty nonsensical to think Myers' job was in jeopardy in 2024 regardless. You're talking about a 3-year starter since his rookie season and the Packers are going to bench him in year 4 (also a contract year)? I just don't see that happening for about 10 different reasons. 

Now 2025 is a different story because as confident as I am that Myers will be our OC this year, I'm just as confident that he won't be our OC next year. 

[AlexGreen#20]

On 4/28/2024 at 8:18 PM, Kampfgeist said:

Don't think Myers' job is in any jeopardy from anyone but Tom and don't think that's very likely either.      Monk's value will be in helping to unseat Newman's roster spot and his $3.2mil cap hit this year and challenge for that C spot next yr depending on a Myers re-signing

I don't think Monk is being looked at as a Guard at all.

All the issues that he has at Center, play out way worse at Guard. 

[Kampfgeist]

5 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I don't think Monk is being looked at as a Guard at all.

All the issues that he has at Center, play out way worse at Guard. 

Jon-Erik Sullivan disagrees with you.   He stated specifically they view him as a G/C Swing.  He loves his play from snap to whistle and play style that lives up to it.  He states he has "enough power and leg drive to move players".  He describes him as quick and strong.   

Virtually every lineman that is less than 315 is described as going to have trouble with big two-gapping linemen.     That's a fact in the NFL.   Yes, a 308lb man may have trouble with a 330-360lb long defensive lineman.   He will have to gain 5-10lbs and learn to compensate much like Zach Tom has.   

His play style and his strength entering the league are nothing like Jake Hanson.   It's a name that is tossed out to invoke trepidation but their games are/were so dissimilar.  The only similarity to their game is one was 304lbs and one is currently listed at 308.      

So I have no doubt his preferred position would be C but he'll get his shot at G.    Thankfully with Myers in place, he should have a year to develop and gain even more functional NFL strength, something Hanson could never do

 

[incognito_man]

Here's a really great sample vs FSU for everyone to see for themselves and decide how you feel about him

https://youtu.be/T4CWzIJ2Fck?si=nHgF1vcc2SDtjFcG

Edited May 3 by incognito_man

[AlexGreen#20]

42 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Here's a really great sample vs FSU for everyone to see for themselves and decide how you feel about him

https://youtu.be/T4CWzIJ2Fck?si=nHgF1vcc2SDtjFcG

6:37-7:17 is all my concerns wrapped up into one 40 second sequence. 

[Kampfgeist]

28 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

6:37-7:17 is all my concerns wrapped up into one 40 second sequence. 

Hits the ground at least 5 times in that video as well.    So we can all agree our 5th rnd #163 overall prospect is going to have to clean up a few things

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Here's a really great sample vs FSU for everyone to see for themselves and decide how you feel about him

https://youtu.be/T4CWzIJ2Fck?si=nHgF1vcc2SDtjFcG

Let's get this out of the way. He's playing against the Justice League. That Florida State D-Line is a collection of 1st Round Picks, Future 1st Round Picks, and Guys Who Would be First Round Picks If They Could Turn Talent Into Production. 

0:02: Down block backside, comes off hard, gets his seal at a good angle, the DT (Farmer) goes upfield rather than fighting through or scraping across, and doesn't get to the RB. Monk's not sticky, he doesn't generate any movement, but that's not a loss. 

0:08: See above. 

0:16: Nobody to block.

0:23: 1v1 against Fiske and stones him cold. Love the punch to kill the power rush, the light feet to handle it laterally and the good back posture to stay with him. Love it. 

0:41 Another 1v1 against Fiske and wins that one too. Does Fiske trip over the RG's foot as he's trying to dip under? Yes. Do I care? Not in the least. It's a street fight, not a judo match. If Fiske is going to run himself into the hazard because Monk has pushed him to the boundary of their skirmish, it's on Fiske to avoid the hazard. 

0:47: Down block backside, comes off hard, gets his seal at a good angle, and sticks to Farmer. Nothing earth shattering, but solid fundamental football.

1:33: Combo block with the LG onto Lovett Sr. Again, nothing earth shattering and no real movement generated, but they get the NT under control and the LG gets up to the LB who helpfully jumps out of the hole to make the block easier. If 7x All-Universe Graham Barton could block a blitzing Safety, Duke ends up with a 1v1 RB/Safety matchup. Monk may not have any leg drive, but he's got that strong upper body that lets him stick to guys if he can attach. 

1:41: I love the discipline to stay home to give the RPO time to get the pass off without getting flagged for Illegal Man Downfield. I couldn't have done it. Half a second after the snap, I would've had my facemask buried in that ILB sternum. Monk gets up to the ILB and gets him on the ground. Florida State fans might have wanted a holding call here. Personally I hold the opinion that you should teach your ILBs to get off a ******* block, refs should never call holding on a killshot, and if you don't like your LBs on the ground then you need to get Linebackers that [redacted]. 

1:49: Pressure's not on him, RB needs to fill the A gap. He does just fine passing the DT off to the LG. 

2:03: [Adds Patrick Payton to list of guys I'm giving preseason first round grade to.] Comes off for the combo block. Farmer is accomodating and already moving into the B gap, gets up to the ILB who's running away from him knowing the play is already over. 

2:10: No issue here. He's sliding right. Would I prefer protection shifted towards Fiske? Probably, but again, you're having to choose between helping on Batman and Wonder Woman or Superman and Green Lantern. There's not a lot of good options.

2:10: No issue here. He's sliding right, need to respect the ILB showing blitz. 

2:47: Zone-stepping right to try and put the double team on Ray who instead goes the opposite direction leaving Monk in the lurch with nobody to block. It's not a good look, but when you're trying to reach block a guy, there's not a lot of time for careful measured steps. Does an elite prospect stay on his feet here? Maybe? That's bad luck. 

3:02: Physical limitations on full display here. Low pad level. Good punch with inside hands. Still got bent back and walked back by Lovett Sr. Still there's something to be said for losing slow. Runyan Jr. just signed a 10/year deal doing that ****, and I'm not marking this a pressure.

3:09: Good football to come off Lovett Jr. and pick up Ray. Maintaining awareness while engaged is going to be a skill that's needed in the pros. You wish he had a little more anchor to him to kill that rush cold, but he stopped it in time. 

3:29: Nobody to reach block going right. LG got beat clean. You'd prefer that he picks one of the second level options to engage with, but it's dead anyway. 

3:35: Getting beat across your face on a clean down block is a very bad lock for a pro athlete, I don't care that Lovett is a very good player. The small silver lining here is that Lovett gets absolutely obliterated by the LG on the pull here. The downside is that if the LG can get onto the LB, rather than the RB getting murdered, this is a TD. Ugly tape. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by AlexGreen#20

[Scoremore]

19 hours ago, R T said:

Kind of my thoughts, heavy-handed, two gapping DTs are going to giving him a lot of trouble right now. Can he get strong enough to overcome that in time? Maybe...maybe not. 

Not according to Wahle.  He didn't think the kid is going to have any trouble.  Just watched his interview.  Gotta say he looks really strong.  I mean the dude is built.  Got some technique things he needs to work on and will be in an uphill battle to unseat Meyers.  I'm not discounting the possibility though.  

[AlexGreen#20]

5 hours ago, Scoremore said:

Not according to Wahle.  He didn't think the kid is going to have any trouble.  Just watched his interview.  Gotta say he looks really strong.  I mean the dude is built.  Got some technique things he needs to work on and will be in an uphill battle to unseat Meyers.  I'm not discounting the possibility though.  

He's got a strong upper body. He does a good job occupying guys when he gets on them.

Watch him in the run game though. He's not moving guys off the ball. Even on double teams, he doesn't generate a lot of movement. 

[craig]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Watch him in the run game though. He's not moving guys off the ball. Even on double teams, he doesn't generate a lot of movement. 

Heh heh, sounds pure Packer!  None of our guys move people off the ball, right?  He'll fit right in!  

[AlexGreen#20]

36 minutes ago, craig said:

Heh heh, sounds pure Packer!  None of our guys move people off the ball, right?  He'll fit right in!  

Watch Myers, Jenkins, or Rhyan in college. 

[craig]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:16 AM, packfanfb said:

... as confident as I am that Myers will be our OC this year, I'm just as confident that he won't be our OC next year. 

Fanb, this got a couple of "likes" from Alex and Wrestler.  But I admit I don't see the "won't be our OC next year" confidence as being anywhere like the "will be this year" confidence? 

1. Yes, Myers is a >98% lock to start this year, barring injury.  (<1% allowance that 5th-rounder Monk is so great that he beats the tenured incumbent.  And <1% allowance that both Morgan and Walker are so incredible that they bump Tom inside....)
2. But no, I don't see comparable >98% certainty that Myers will be gone next year?  Why would that be so certain?    Possible, yes, due to contract.   But not nearly so probable and certain as that he will start this year.  

• Sure, Myers will be due for a payday.  But it's not like he's HOF-center that will command a historically-large center contract.  Centers don't normally get paid the moon, so keeping him may not be a cap-buster. 
• Gute is depth-aware.  If you dump Myers for $$ to replace with Monk, you're going right back to a depth problem and needing to expend resources on backup-center contingencies.  Gute spent 1st on Morgan because he knew we got super lucky with OL injuries last year, and he wanted depth.  By hypothetically spending modest starting-center money on Myers, then with Myers and Monk he doesn't need to worry about center depth for a while or waste other resources on that?  
• Sure, maybe Monk will be so exciting that they think he's as good or better than Myers at less cash, so they make the switch.  But more likely he's a 5th-rounder for reasons, and he'll never be an asset starter, or a guy management is itching to push into the starting role.  When this season ends, more than likely that MLF doesn't look at Monk and Myers and say "Monk is the better center, I want Monk starting, best 5."  
• Maybe the Tom-inside bumps from 1% to 10% next year, because Walker improves and emerges as an asset tackle, and Morgan looks great too.  But that hardly seems as confidently probable as is Myers starting this year, does it?  

Lots of things are possible, and Myers not getting a second contract with us is certainly possible.  It's just not on a dominant-probability level comparable to his starting this year.  

[incognito_man]

18 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

6:37-7:17 is all my concerns wrapped up into one 40 second sequence. 

I noticed him get overwhelmed by strength a handful of times for sure. He took some losses in this match-up. That pancake in the timeframe you mentioned is not a good look.

[incognito_man]

17 hours ago, Kampfgeist said:

Hits the ground at least 5 times in that video as well.    So we can all agree our 5th rnd #163 overall prospect is going to have to clean up a few things

I had read someone (maybe you earlier?) mention he's on the ground a lot, so I had that in my mind while watching that cutup vs FSU and my observation was that yes, he does end up on the ground numerous times - but to me many of those plays look like ones where ironically his athleticism in trying to do more is what caused him to end up on the ground. Many of them weren't losses, it was him trying to do extra work and athletically contorting himself (for an OL) to try and chip a guy or outmaneuver a guy.