53 Man Roster thread

[Old Guy]

2 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Watson changes the defense just by being on the field.  He is a size and speed nightmare to cover, and they have to account for it.   There aren't many players like that in the league, and we have one of them.  

Watch some of Wicks' highlights.  He looks a lot like Davante Adams before he put it all together.  I think if he continues to develop, he will be a big time player.  

Not to discount any of your thoughts. I just see Reed as that slot you can't cover. I also see a lot of Davante in Doubs in his ability to go up and get the ball. Doubs does not have Davante's suddenness in and out of breaks though. Davante broke more ankles than any WR in history. 

I have not seen enough of Wicks, but what I remember might be more Sterling Sharpe than Adams. I fully admit I could be wrong about this. 

31 minutes ago, Mazrimiv said:

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. He didn't say there was a big gap between those 4.  You could put those 4 in virtually any order and be able to make a reasonable argument for it.

I'm seeing exactly what he wrote and replied to it as such. Which is confirmed to his replied to me above and to you below. By the way, I don't disagree with the bold part. @ThatJerkDave is right about Watson. If he's healthy, I don't know how you can cover him. 

25 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I am biased in that Christian Watson is my favorite player.  And I would put him easily ahead of the other three.  But just like I thought Greg Jennings was our best WR in the mid-2000s, Driver, Jones and Finley were all capable of being the number 1 target, depending on the game.  

 

Edited July 3 by Old Guy

[OneTwoSixFive]

22 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Watson changes the defense just by being on the field.  He is a size and speed nightmare to cover, and they have to account for it.   There aren't many players like that in the league, and we have one of them.  

Watch some of Wicks' highlights.  He looks a lot like Davante Adams before he put it all together.  I think if he continues to develop, he will be a big time player.  

I feel the same about Melton. Some history playing as a RB, his 4.34 speed, his play when given chances, the fact that LaFleur was playing him all over the place and even designing plays for him, his rating by PFF, to name some of the things that encourage me to think he could be special with more reps. He is as good as he is even before the game has slowed down for him, so he will be getting better. He isn't a big receiver (about 5'10", 190 lbs) but he is dangerous and a fine alternative to Reed, in the slot.

Edited July 4 by OneTwoSixFive

[craig]

1 hour ago, ThatJerkDave said:

....I still don't think there is much of a difference between Heath, Melton, and Toure, talent wise.  ...

Talent-wise, maybe.  Those three are three VERY different players, though.  A feisty tenacious physical battler/blocker in Heath; a quickness/speedster guy in Melton; and the lanky  Toure.   Seems to me that Heath and Melton each have specific relatively unique roles that they are variably good and uniquely suited for.  Toure seems less niche guy, more jack-of-all-master-of-none.  

Personally, I kinda see Melton well ahead of Toure, in both role and in talent/threat?  For a couple of reasons.  First, when he did get his opportunity, he made a bunch of catches.  Toure had gotten opportunity, but never got many targets or did much with them.  When you're a bubble prospect, you get some windows of opportunity, and you need to capitalize.  Melton did, Toure hasn't, at least thus far.  When you're a 3rd-receiver, and not getting the attention the defense gives to 1st or 2nd receivers, you want to be able to take advantage.  Melton kinda did, Toure not so much.  Second, Toure was originally kept on roster, per Gute, because he looked good in the slot role.  But, Melton passed him up in that role.  I infer that in MLF's view, Melton had surpassed Toure even though Toure had come in as the tenured guy.  Third, Melton is very fast, much more so than Toure.  Stretch-the-field function that Toure doesn't add, both to open things for the other guys, but also as a deep threat himself.  Fourth, being shorter, I think he's quicker for stop-and-go, change-of-direction stuff.  Toure doesn't have equivalent COD capacity.  I think that also plays better with his speed, since defenders maybe give him an extra half-step to start with, compared to how they cover Toure.  

So yeah, in my view I think Melton's got a definite step on Toure in terms of both making the roster, getting some snaps, and getting some targets.  

[ThatJerkDave]

41 minutes ago, craig said:

Talent-wise, maybe.  Those three are three VERY different players, though.  A feisty tenacious physical battler/blocker in Heath; a quickness/speedster guy in Melton; and the lanky  Toure.   Seems to me that Heath and Melton each have specific relatively unique roles that they are variably good and uniquely suited for.  Toure seems less niche guy, more jack-of-all-master-of-none.  

Personally, I kinda see Melton well ahead of Toure, in both role and in talent/threat?  For a couple of reasons.  First, when he did get his opportunity, he made a bunch of catches.  Toure had gotten opportunity, but never got many targets or did much with them.  When you're a bubble prospect, you get some windows of opportunity, and you need to capitalize.  Melton did, Toure hasn't, at least thus far.  When you're a 3rd-receiver, and not getting the attention the defense gives to 1st or 2nd receivers, you want to be able to take advantage.  Melton kinda did, Toure not so much.  Second, Toure was originally kept on roster, per Gute, because he looked good in the slot role.  But, Melton passed him up in that role.  I infer that in MLF's view, Melton had surpassed Toure even though Toure had come in as the tenured guy.  Third, Melton is very fast, much more so than Toure.  Stretch-the-field function that Toure doesn't add, both to open things for the other guys, but also as a deep threat himself.  Fourth, being shorter, I think he's quicker for stop-and-go, change-of-direction stuff.  Toure doesn't have equivalent COD capacity.  I think that also plays better with his speed, since defenders maybe give him an extra half-step to start with, compared to how they cover Toure.  

So yeah, in my view I think Melton's got a definite step on Toure in terms of both making the roster, getting some snaps, and getting some targets.  

Toure kind of plays like a not as good version of Doubs.  I am not sure that there is a spot for him because of that.  I constantly defend Toure on here because everyone dismisses him without a second thought.  I think he is a player that could make a roster, and has as recently as last season.  

Like I just don't think it is a shocking move like cutting Josh Sitton, should DuBose and Toure make the roster over Heath and Melton.  What would be shocking is if we cut a non-legal trouble top 4 WR in favor of any of these guys.

My predicted roster WRs are:  Watson, Wicks, Reed, Doubs, Melton.  I think there is room for one more, but I want to see what Tyler Davis looks like upon his return, and I would rather keep a fully ready Kadeem Telfort, Caleb Jones, or Luke Tenuta on the roster, or maybe even a 4th RB if it is earned, over the 6th WR.  

 

[AlexGreen#20]

21 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

Toure kind of plays like a not as good version of Doubs.  I am not sure that there is a spot for him because of that.  I constantly defend Toure on here because everyone dismisses him without a second thought.  I think he is a player that could make a roster, and has as recently as last season.  

Like I just don't think it is a shocking move like cutting Josh Sitton, should DuBose and Toure make the roster over Heath and Melton.  What would be shocking is if we cut a non-legal trouble top 4 WR in favor of any of these guys.

My predicted roster WRs are:  Watson, Wicks, Reed, Doubs, Melton.  I think there is room for one more, but I want to see what Tyler Davis looks like upon his return, and I would rather keep a fully ready Kadeem Telfort, Caleb Jones, or Luke Tenuta on the roster, or maybe even a 4th RB if it is earned, over the 6th WR.  

 

I would be pretty damn shocked if DuBose or Toure made the roster over Melton. 

[ThatJerkDave]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I would be pretty damn shocked if DuBose or Toure made the roster over Melton. 

More than if we kept one of them and Melton over Wicks?

[VonKarman]

Wicks>Reed>Watson>Doubs>Melton>Heath.

[Old Guy]

Toure sucks! He can go with Newman. 

I don't think you can differentiate between any of the top 4 (Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks). They are all different but also necessary to the overall running of the offense. 

I agree with @ThatJerkDave Watson has gifts (totality) none of the other ones do and could be what makes the offense unstoppable. Reed, Doubs and Wicks all bring different things to the table, and each could really make a major leap this year. 

Melton is very intriguing and I'm excited to see if he can build on that. I love Heath because he plays with a nastiness to his game and is a very willing blocker. 

Dubois is the mystery of this camp. He's really going to have to impress to crack the top 6. 

[Brat&Beer]

I think DuBose will be one of the highlights of training camp...and end up on the practice squad. 

[AlexGreen#20]

3 hours ago, ThatJerkDave said:

More than if we kept one of them and Melton over Wicks?

Wicks isn't going anywhere.

Your top 4 are easily Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks. 

Your number 5, at least to me at this point is pretty easily Melton. 

Then your 6-8 is Heath, Toure, and Dubose in some order that I don't know how anybody has determined yet. 

[Zycho32]

8 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Wicks isn't going anywhere.

Your top 4 are easily Watson, Doubs, Reed, Wicks. 

Your number 5, at least to me at this point is pretty easily Melton. 

Then your 6-8 is Heath, Toure, and Dubose in some order that I don't know how anybody has determined yet. 

I'd say your order hits it on the head. Heath's ST work puts him at 6, and Toure has enough senority over DuBose to have 7 for the moment, though he COULD rocket up to 5 if our primary options in the return game(Nixon/Reed) are out of commission. I say DuBose is going to look really good against 2nd/3rd stringers throughout the preseason, but he doesn't make it to the 53. We might even lose him as a PS pickup if he really takes off.

[Old Guy]

This is an interesting clickbait article. I'd say 2,3 and 5 are likely. Can't count 1 and 4 out just yet. 

5 veterans who won't make the Green Bay Packers' Week 1 roster (msn.com)

[Old Guy]

5 hours ago, Zycho32 said:

I'd say your order hits it on the head. Heath's ST work puts him at 6, and Toure has enough senority over DuBose to have 7 for the moment, though he COULD rocket up to 5 if our primary options in the return game(Nixon/Reed) are out of commission. I say DuBose is going to look really good against 2nd/3rd stringers throughout the preseason, but he doesn't make it to the 53. We might even lose him as a PS pickup if he really takes off.

At this point Toure's seniority should be a negative for him, not a positive. The dude is not an NFL WR. Just my opinion. The only 3rd year guy I want gone more than him is Newman. 

[craig]

13 minutes ago, Old Guy said:

This is an interesting clickbait article. I'd say 2,3 and 5 are likely. Can't count 1 and 4 out just yet. 

5 veterans who won't make the Green Bay Packers' Week 1 roster (msn.com)

Agree, I'd expect 1 and 4 to make the roster.  5 I think is a very remotely long shot to make it, barring injury.  

I think 3 has a decent chance; may depend less on how he looks (he probably kinda is what he is) than on how promising the alternatives look.  If some rising cheaper guy looks competitive and has untapped upside left, go with the cheaper upside guy.  But the anti-awful principle applies here.  If alternatives look potentially awful, I think there is potential merit in having 3 as anti-awful contingency, even if that comes with some extra salary.  I'm fine with entrusting that evaluation to Gute and MLF.

[Old Guy]

45 minutes ago, craig said:

Agree, I'd expect 1 and 4 to make the roster.  5 I think is a very remotely long shot to make it, barring injury.  

I think 3 has a decent chance; may depend less on how he looks (he probably kinda is what he is) than on how promising the alternatives look.  If some rising cheaper guy looks competitive and has untapped upside left, go with the cheaper upside guy.  But the anti-awful principle applies here.  If alternatives look potentially awful, I think there is potential merit in having 3 as anti-awful contingency, even if that comes with some extra salary.  I'm fine with entrusting that evaluation to Gute and MLF.

There are over 2.3 million reasons to get rid of Newman. That is the difference between what he makes and what a potential rookie, like Monk would make this year. 

There is no reason for Newman to be on the roster. Newman has the 15th largest cap number this year. That is puke worthy. 

 

Edited July 4 by Old Guy