Jerry Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Allair does intrigue me, but his supporting cast does him no favors. Sanders is toxic to me as well. Kyler. Manziel, Eli Apple, Eli Manning, Lamar, I don't care. Once your parent proves to be a helicopter parent, I'm out. It becomes a nearly untenable situation to deal with for a professional organization. And unfortunately for Shadeur, Deion looks like a "prime" candidate to be the worst of the worst in terms of meddling above his weight class....pun absolutely intended. David Carr was nauseating to me, but at least his job was to give his opinion on football things and for people to not take him seriously. Deion Sanders would be that on steroids with a built-in cult following that may actually become persuasive to a front office, owner, coach, etc. No thanks. I feel sort of bad for him, as I don't think he's some totally talentless hack being promoted on his dad's name alone. But so far he's been a D-2 phenom who struggled mightily at the D-1 level and is 100% skating by on his dad doing his best Don King impression. +1. I would hate it if we drafted Sanders. For all the same reasons you listed. I think he's a really good player, but I think his demeanor and personality will rub a lot of players the wrong way. He seems like the type of person/player that expects respect without earning it. Demands to be a team captain without taking a vote. The only way I see him succeeding is if he goes to a very young NFL team with no true leaders in place. Or a team that is willing to ignore and accept the circus because they are so close and so desperate for a championship. He will most likely demand the first ever 100M per season contract in the NFL without ever playing close to that level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 hours ago, Jerry said: Good morning ronjon1990, The "out of nowhere riser" comes from out of nowhere. Therefore, Will Howard will not be it. I'll send him an e-mail to let him know that because you predicted him to be the "out of nowhere riser," he is no longer eligible for the opportunity. TIA! Very respectfully, Jerry Don't make me spam the board with images of Will Howard in a Raiders jersey NYRaider style. Real talk, any thoughts on Howard? Hes one I don't see many people talking about but man....I can see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 4 hours ago, Jerry said: +1. I would hate it if we drafted Sanders. For all the same reasons you listed. I think he's a really good player, but I think his demeanor and personality will rub a lot of players the wrong way. He seems like the type of person/player that expects respect without earning it. Demands to be a team captain without taking a vote. The only way I see him succeeding is if he goes to a very young NFL team with no true leaders in place. Or a team that is willing to ignore and accept the circus because they are so close and so desperate for a championship. He will most likely demand the first ever 100M per season contract in the NFL without ever playing close to that level. I agree that he's very good. In fact it's so funny that the polish/pro-readiness of his game belies his maturity. The guy is incredibly immature/cocky and he needs to grow up fast or he'll never be able to lead a locker room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Don't make me spam the board with images of Will Howard in a Raiders jersey NYRaider style. Real talk, any thoughts on Howard? Hes one I don't see many people talking about but man....I can see it. Will Howard was about to lose his job to Avery Johnson a KState. It was week to week with him there. He will bring mobility the position lacked at Ohio State last year and Chip Kelly's offense should give him a chance to put up big numbers. But I'd argue he's going to be a sum of their parts. The roster is loaded. He might be the weak link on that offense. What do you see with him outside the obvious Ohio St. bump due to the stacked roster and staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 10 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Allair does intrigue me, but his supporting cast does him no favors. Sanders is toxic to me as well. Kyler. Manziel, Eli Apple, Eli Manning, Lamar, I don't care. Once your parent proves to be a helicopter parent, I'm out. It becomes a nearly untenable situation to deal with for a professional organization. And unfortunately for Shadeur, Deion looks like a "prime" candidate to be the worst of the worst in terms of meddling above his weight class....pun absolutely intended. David Carr was nauseating to me, but at least his job was to give his opinion on football things and for people to not take him seriously. Deion Sanders would be that on steroids with a built-in cult following that may actually become persuasive to a front office, owner, coach, etc. No thanks. I feel sort of bad for him, as I don't think he's some totally talentless hack being promoted on his dad's name alone. But so far he's been a D-2 phenom who struggled mightily at the D-1 level and is 100% skating by on his dad doing his best Don King impression. Sanders just didn’t elevate the team and was playing to stat pad. Struggled to get the ball out fast, isn’t super mobile, reminds me of Teddy Bridgewater 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 5 hours ago, big_palooka said: Will Howard was about to lose his job to Avery Johnson a KState. It was week to week with him there. He will bring mobility the position lacked at Ohio State last year and Chip Kelly's offense should give him a chance to put up big numbers. But I'd argue he's going to be a sum of their parts. The roster is loaded. He might be the weak link on that offense. What do you see with him outside the obvious Ohio St. bump due to the stacked roster and staff? So, obviously his size and mobility jump out. Those are the two easy things to go along with the Ohio St bump. Those 3 elements alone are, imo, going to garner attention if things work out this year. Every year, there's someone who gets a Draft bump from a good/great program almost exclusively based on their raw skills. His arm talent is good enough. My guess is he'll probably interview well and he has at least some measure of self awareness in choosing to transfer and a desire to improve. There's certainly no debate from me that a lot of whatever bump he receives is going to come in the form of a gift from his new surroundings. That in itself should have a few layers to it. The improved weapons should help improve the stats and allow him to showcase his positives. Another area will be the improved coaching and whatever impact that has on cleaning up his mechanics. As much as I respect Kansas State's coaching staff amd.the job they've done, it's really no fair competition from a cosching and resources standpoint. It's rare that toolsy guys from less than stellar surroundings get a lot of love around the Draft. Josh Allen being one of them (not directly comparing Allen and Howard). It's not unheard of, just rare. With Howard, we get to see what happens when that toolsy guy from less than stellar surroundings jumps to a top 5-6 program before the Draft. I'd being lying if I said Howard would be high on my radar if he and, say, DJU, traded places at Ohio St and FSU respectively. For a prospect, for me, Howard is checking a lot of boxes on the riser indicator list- size, mobility, arm talent, annual improvement. He's a candidate for a night-day improvement in terms of overall mechanics and he's getting that shot at a pretty exclusive shot on an exclusive stage. Ohio St, hate the Buckeyes as I do, fall into a category with very few competitors- Bama, Georgia, maybe Michigan. Those programs don't usually bring guys in, rather they feed them out. Like you said, the Ohio St bump. I would wager that the Ohio St bump would be amplified for him. Again, if he went to Clemson, Oregon, FSU, wherever, he'd get a bump for sure. Ohio St, Georgia, Alabama- those are bump ++ schools. I'm certainly not going to say Howard is going to overtake X, Y, Z QB in the pecking order. By the end of the year, I could easily be saying "Wait, why is he getting a 1st round grade?". He's just that guy in a really really unique situation from school to coaching to scheme fit where if there were ever the potential for a guy to skyrocket with no clear ceiling, it's this instance. Nearly losing a job doesn't mean he lost it or that he's trrash- Burrow got run out of Ohio State for who? Lol. Jalen Hurts got run off by Tua, but I think a re-Draft would see Hurts getting a lot more love than he initially got. Heck, Spencer Rattler was getting genuine round 2 love from the Drafnik community, and he absolutely squandered his opportunity at Oklahoma. So, yeah, for me it's his size, speed, tools, athleticism and the sky being the limit with the new program, coaching, and weapons. Whether he ultimately pans out is 100% TBD. But in terms of preseason stock forecasts, I have a hard time finding someone with the same opportunity to explode onto the scene. All gut feelings right now though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 5 hours ago, NYRaider said: Sanders just didn’t elevate the team and was playing to stat pad. Struggled to get the ball out fast, isn’t super mobile, reminds me of Teddy Bridgewater I just don’t see the hype with him, even if you remove his apparent toxic personality and family from the equation. I want nothing to do with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 6 hours ago, FloydFan said: I just don’t see the hype with him, even if you remove his apparent toxic personality and family from the equation. I want nothing to do with him. Same. Looks like a run of the mill college QB to me. What's the difference in him and say someone like Cam Ward who came from a D2 school? I'd argue Ward has more exciting tools. Sanders is more name than game until proven otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydFan Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: Same. Looks like a run of the mill college QB to me. What's the difference in him and say someone like Cam Ward who came from a D2 school? I'd argue Ward has more exciting tools. Sanders is more name than game until proven otherwise. If his last name wasn’t Sanders he’d have significantly less hype. I have no doubt about that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 18 minutes ago, FloydFan said: If his last name wasn’t Sanders he’d have significantly less hype. I have no doubt about that. Not to pile it on, but I don't know that he'd have any hype. He's good good, not great size. He's got good, not great athleticism. His stats amd production are good, not great. His mechanics are good, not great. His immediate outlook (what he's realistically expected to do/achieve in his current circumstance) is decent, not good. The same things could honestly be said about 20-30 guys in college football right now. There's just nothing standout or noteworthy about him. From a talent perspective, he clearly belongs in D1 instead of D2. But the leap from qualified D1 QB to NFL QB is an even bigger leap than the leap he has yet to justify making in terms of actual play. I might feel differently if he displayed some 6th sense type of mental quality to the game. That can turn a ho-hum college QB into a decent NFL prospect (not a 1st round pick). We've seen guys with meh tools become quality starters and backups because of it, whether we call it heart, grit, you name it. Hell, we have one of those in Minshew. Brock Purdy has it. Jimmy G had it at one point. Bruce Gradkowski had some. You certainly don't have to physically wow to make it, but you gotta have something. With Sanders, I don't see that. I see a guy who has ok physical tools and a famous hype train dad coach doing everything in his power to amplify those ok tools as if they're not a dime-a-dozen across the 120 or so D1 college QBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 21 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Don't make me spam the board with images of Will Howard in a Raiders jersey NYRaider style. Real talk, any thoughts on Howard? Hes one I don't see many people talking about but man....I can see it. I see the vision and I respect it. I'm surprised he didn't declare this past season. If he takes one more step forward, he's probably going to end up in the first-round next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 37 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: Not to pile it on, but I don't know that he'd have any hype. He's good good, not great size. He's got good, not great athleticism. His stats amd production are good, not great. His mechanics are good, not great. His immediate outlook (what he's realistically expected to do/achieve in his current circumstance) is decent, not good. The same things could honestly be said about 20-30 guys in college football right now. There's just nothing standout or noteworthy about him. From a talent perspective, he clearly belongs in D1 instead of D2. But the leap from qualified D1 QB to NFL QB is an even bigger leap than the leap he has yet to justify making in terms of actual play. I might feel differently if he displayed some 6th sense type of mental quality to the game. That can turn a ho-hum college QB into a decent NFL prospect (not a 1st round pick). We've seen guys with meh tools become quality starters and backups because of it, whether we call it heart, grit, you name it. Hell, we have one of those in Minshew. Brock Purdy has it. Jimmy G had it at one point. Bruce Gradkowski had some. You certainly don't have to physically wow to make it, but you gotta have something. With Sanders, I don't see that. I see a guy who has ok physical tools and a famous hype train dad coach doing everything in his power to amplify those ok tools as if they're not a dime-a-dozen across the 120 or so D1 college QBs. My biggest gripe as well. If your son had the tools, they'd speak for themselves. Instead daddy is out here telling everyone how great he is and how he will be the #1 overall pick. Needs to take a back seat and let his son earn it not entitle him to in. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: My biggest gripe as well. If your son had the tools, they'd speak for themselves. Instead daddy is out here telling everyone how great he is and how he will be the #1 overall pick. Needs to take a back seat and let his son earn it not entitle him to in. I am higher on him than you guys but I totally agree. His game should speak for itself. Imagine how much better people would think of him if he praised his awful OL and was down to earth. We’d be saying he’s a great teammate and possible future starter in the league 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Yep, at this point his dad might be doing more harm than good with all the excess BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 On 6/3/2024 at 12:58 PM, ronjon1990 said: Don't make me spam the board with images of Will Howard in a Raiders jersey NYRaider style. Real talk, any thoughts on Howard? Hes one I don't see many people talking about but man....I can see it. You love a mid QB broskie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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